John Deere Advertising

[GrantMO]

I'm in the market the next 18 months, hopefully sooner for a compact tractor. After visiting the local JD dealer and looking at the 4000 series I was impressed. One thing I noticed on the back of the 4000 series booklet said it was assembled in Augusta, Georgia. Next it says that "the 4200 through 4600 Tractors were designed and are assembled at our factory in Augusta, Georgia" and the loaders are made in Canada. This implies the tractor itself is all American made and it even says other tractors in the 20-43 hp range "come from some far distant shore....that's not the case with the 4000 series."
Aren't the engines made by Yanmar in Japan or did that change? I know it's almost impossible to find things completely made in America these days but if they are still Yanmar, I think that's a little deceptive. What do you think?

 

[RobS]

Yes Grant, it is hard to find anything completely made in America anymore.

Regarding the JD compacts... The 790 and 990 are designed and built by Yanmar in Japan, to Deere specs. The 4100 is designed by Deere and built by Yanmar in Japan. The 4200-4700 are designed by Deere, built in Augusta with engines from Yanmar in Japan. And yes, loaders and many other implements are built at Deere's Welland, Ontario plant.

Deere and Yanmar have been partners for some time I believe. My 790 is very clearly labelled on the rear as being built by Yanmar in Japan. The advertising material is probably intentionally vague to avoid discouraging any potential buyers.

 

[Wheeldog]

Grant,

I came away with the same impression of that little writeup on the back of the 4000-series brochure. They could just have said that they have an assembly facility in GA, and the loaders are built in Canada and left it at that. But instead they have to throw in that "far distant shore" crap. Who builds the 4100 and the engines for the rest of the 4000 series? - Just some good ol' boys in a plant just West of California someplace?

The 4000-series is excellent overall, but the advertising is a little hypocritical if you ask me.

 

[BobT]

I am a little surprised that these manufacturers continue to be so (intentionally) vaguely misleading. All of them were sued a couple of years back by the US Government for deceptive advertising (you can find the court cases if you search around a little on the Net). They agreed to refrain from that "made in the USA" fluff when the reality was for all practical purposes, that their machines were made in foreign countires. Maybe the govt needs to take another look at their ads ...

I don't think it really matters to the buyer, because the engines and parts are of excellent quality. They don't really fool anybody, except maybe themselves.

BobT.
A Indiana Boy

 

[banjobj]

Deere doesn't have a lock on deceptive advertising, just look at the New Holland Boomer site. It states " Boomer compact tractors are built from the ground up to blast through any job. Assembled at the New Holland plant in Dublin, Georgia " I just got a TC 21 D and it says made in Japan on the serial number tag.

 

[GrantMO]

About 2 months ago I was at the Kubota dealer and drove the L3010, another nice tractor. At the time I was amused that the salesman went out of his way to point out that Kubota was made in Japan and that they made their own engines and the rest of the tractor. Now I can see why they do that when the greens and blues are subtley trying to sell theirs as all-American made. Bob is right, I'm not sure who they're fooling. I guess it doesn't matter too much, they're all good machines, but I want them to shoot straight with me.

 

[Thomas]

Not only tractors but Maytag,Ford,Chevy,P/C's etc..one led to believe its from the USA..no so any more,cheaper aboard to build than ship here and a stamp put on the items plus a well place ad helps..yep thats little deceptive.

Enjoy your tractor quest and I hope what ever you choice arrives earlier than 18 months

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Blu21]

My son always seems to point out that most of his toys are from china,I tried to explain but he had one of those confused looks on his face.Things sure have changed!Tom

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Looks like a play on words to me. The parts are "designed" in the US, "manufactured" overseas then shipped to the US for "assembly" thus giving the illusion of an American made unit. Just my opinion.

Russ

 

[Mike_S]

Rus--I cannot speak for all JD compacts, but the 4200+ series has components that are manufactured in a variety of places, including overseas as well as the U.S. For example, the quality engines are manufactured by Yanmar whereas the front ends are manufactured by Dana in the U.S. and the hydrostatic transmissions are manufactured by Funk in the U.S. My 4400 had problems with the front end and transmission (among other things) and I personally would rather the entire tractor have been manufactured by Yanmar in Japan (like my 955) instead of in Georgia by JD because I feel that my 4400 would have had fewer engineering and quality control issues.

 

[Roy]

Like it or not, the world is now a global economy. WWII moved the US from regional to National economics; the 1990's moved the US, and the entire world, into a global marketplace. If any conglomerate is to survive, they must be world-wide, or they will surely perish. It really doesn't really matter where the tractors or components are built. Quality will live in the global marketplace; pure cheapness will eventually fail.

I engineer systems for a living. As long as any supplier adheres to my requirements and specifications, it doesn't matter where it was made. I can't get into Made-in-America. I prefer: Is it made correctly?

 

[BobT]

Roy, I agree with you 100%.

It used to be, after WWII, that cheap really poorly made products were synonymous with "Made in Japan." It was a joke if anybody gave you a watch or gift that said "Made in Japan" on the back!

Of course today some of the very finest products, spceially electronics and autos, are made in Japan. We used to look for "Made in Japan" to avoid them; now, we look for that label in order to be assured of quality.

I hate to say this, but the vast majority of products I buy made in the USA are ... JUNK. I almost always prefer foreign made items, because more often than not, they are "made with quality" as you say. I can especialy point to the wooden office products I have bought at Staples, OfficeMax, etc. All "made in the USA." Junkier crap I have never ever seen. Also, I used to buy Lincoln cars. Never, ever again. Now driving world class quality (Germany). There is simply no comparison with the German and US-made autos.

BobT.
A Indiana Boy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>We used to look for "Made in Japan" to avoid them; now, we look for that label in order to be assured of quality.
</font color=blue>

Absolutely agree...

I remember my mother picking up an item, turning it over and looking at the bottom label... if it said "Made in Japan", she abruptly placed it back on the shelf...

Today, I look at the label, if it says "Made in Japan", it's quality and I buy it. My Acura's, my kids' Honda's, the Ryobi's, Fuji engine in my Polaris, Makita, Sony, Akai, Pioneer, Yamaha, Kenwood, etc. etc.

However, even Japanese companies use cost cutting measures today... look at Sony and see "Made in Korea"...

I believe things go in cycles. I wouldn't hesitate to buy Sony because of "MIJ", but now "MIK" the quality has absolutely suffered.

The flip side, just because a company has a reputation for quality, not everything is made that way... sometimes a mistake if made and really tarnishes the entire line... ex. Firestone Tires...

All the manufacturers are "guilty" of stretching the truth, walking a fine line with their advertisements...ex.

Quoting "Gross engine hp" over actual "real-life" PTO hp,
loader lift capacity at the "pins" vs "center of bucket",
3pt-hitch capacity at the yoke vs 24" extended out,
90 hp Mower Gearbox(Peak) vs 45 hp cont. duty,
2 layers of steel(thin) vs. 1 layer of steel(thick), etc. etc.

Lots & lots of marketing, you have to read and re-read to separate the "wheat from the chaff"...

 

[Roy]

I agree, John. Separation of the hype from reality; wheat from the chaff. (At least it's not as bad as politics…. But I won't go there).

 

[Snell]

What is amusing to me is that if Kubota chose to, it could also put "assembled in the USA". Just check out the shop of any Kubota dealer when a container load comes in from Japan. Most of the implements Kubota has are fully made and assembled in the USA (in a plant in Georgia). The older backhoes were Woods and they have now gone to another company. Their snowblowers are made in Canada. Last year the BX models were all made in the US but not being able to keep up with demand, part of them will be coming in from Japan this year as they are using one of their plants to supplement the US made models (will be able to tell where yours is made by the seriel number). Guess what I'm trying to say is that advertising (as with statistics) can get around to saying what the seller wants it to say even if it is only implied. As John said, advertisers push forward the stats that make the product sound the best. Just make sure when you are reading the literature you are really comparing "apples to apples" because things like lift capacity of the bucket are extremely deceiving unless that capacity is taken from the same point. I have seen where people have made comparisons from literature on this forum without realizing that the numbers were acheived in very different ways. Wouldn't it be nice if there was "standard" information required on every piece of literature comparing products - from washing machines to tractors so I wouldn't feel so stupid searching for a product that takes care of my needs? Hey... I'm allowed to daydream every now and then.

 

[Muhammad]

I think a 3rd party testing agency could solve the statistics problems... on the compact tractors anyway. Put 'em in the field... see what they'll do. You would probably see some more 'real world' statistics come up as well...

 

[vtrick]

Snell,
I think that your dream is in the process of becomming a reality. Since WWII, the allies realized the importance of having common construction standards for weapons and machinery. This would assist efforts on the front lines if many allied forces guns could use the same ammo. Since then alot of work has been done to use same standards for different countries. Over the recent years, this theory has bled over to industry of varying countries. Since the world is operating on a global economy, new markets can be attained through manufacturing products on a world standard. For many years, USA has had it's own standard as well as other countries. Our standard is known as UL, Underwriters Lab. This ensures that a product with the UL labeling will work anywhere in the US for it's intended purpose. The world standard is ISO, International Standards Organaziation. Any product with this labeling will function properly in any country recognizing this standard regardless manufacturer orgin. Over the past 5 years this idea has really picked up momentum. In the near future, IMHO consumers will be able to compare similar products on an "apples to apples" basis.

Thanks, Rick

 

[Snell]

ISO sounds like a wonderful idea but in the back of my mind I wonder about the global standards... because of one main reason. I remember when I was told that you would see everything based on the metric system by 1980. No more inches/quarts or pounds. I would not be surprised at the results if you asked the average American which was longer, a meter or a yard. I realize the metric system is the global standard but when do we jump on board? In theory, we are very good about wanting to be part of the global economy but when it means there may be real changes, it seems you get a real fight. Human nature is that people resist change. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to international industry standards... I believe they may give the consumers a leg up. Forgive my ignorance, what is an "IMHO consumer"? On a seperate note to Mohammad... I would really enjoy seeing something similar to the field tests that are presently run on the large farm tractors run on the compact tractors. Do you know of anything in the works?

Matt