Joined the red club!

[JWR]

Great sound-off Whit ! You never uttered a harsh word and never bragged your credentials until what Deezler rightly calls armchair quarterbacks jumped on ya for no good reason. Atta boy !!

Nice tractor acquisition. Banks are like that -- they have little idea what it is in the first place and cutting their losses becomes very attractive. Good deal.

 

[Dmacleo]

I was as well! Apparently the bank wanted to get rid of it!


Yup, that's me. I got for just under $24k.



Please use scientific data to back up your opinion or take your thread crapping elsewhere.



Would you like to offer some explanation as to why it "doesn't look that great"? There are ~3.5" diameter helper bags inside the rear coil springs. At 45psi, that is 430lbs of lift per bag. The weight distribution bars were not cranked, but were certainly not loose. That is good for another 300-350lbs of lift. So that is easily 1200lbs of lift force to combat tongue weight and the rear end was still 1-1.5" lower than empty. At a tractor weight of 3800lb, trailer weight of 2100lb, the general 20% tongue weight rule gives us a number of 1180lbs target. Considering I had ~1200lb of lift and the rear was still sagging, that tells us I'm over 20% of tongue weight and plenty in the safe zone.

What is wrong with the load placement on the trailer? The edge of the bucket was 3" from the front edge of the deck. It literally was as far forward as it could go. Putting the tractor on backwards would have yielded way too much tongue weight.

If you want to discuss braking safety, a 2008 F150 has 13" front and 12.5" rear disc brakes. Guess what the jeep has? The exact same sizes. It also has a dana 44 based solid rear axle. So anyone who says towing this load with a 1/2 ton truck would be safer has no basis to stand on.

The trip was a total of 3104 miles and 210.42 gallons of diesel used. That makes for a total trip MPG of 14.75. Would you like to see the trip odometer and the fuel receipts? I hauled a 4400lb vehicle to the NW side of houston and picked up the tractor on the way back. The only time I ran empty was from Bryan TX to Chickasa OK.




So you're the guy that tows a 4'x8' landscape trailer with this 1 ton dually then? Please use scientific data to tell me what I did that is inviting danger. The tongue weight is perfect, I'm at half trailer capacity, I'm 1700lbs under oem rated towing capacity, the brakes on the jeep are 13"F and 12.5"R discs which are exactly what an F150 of the same vintage runs, both axles on the trailer have brakes, and the towed load is basically equal to the vehicle weight.

So is your opinion that an 8500lb dually towing a 25k gooseneck has blown by any reasonable limits and is absolutely reckless also? If you want to donate fuel money next time, I'll happily take the big truck and goose for a 3800lb load if it would help you sleep at night.


How do you know I didn't have enough tongue weight? Please read my reply to sea2summit for the math. I had over 20% tongue weight, probably closer to 25%. How much more would you like?







I don't normally do any horn tooting, but apparently it's necessary here. I have an associates degree in automotive high performance technology, diesel technology, and alternative fuel technology. I have another associates degree in mechanical engineering. I have a CDL A and a "big" truck and trailer for loads that require it. I have owned a machine shop/fabrication/diesel repair business for close to 14 years now. I'm also a firefighter on 2 departments and regularly drive 45,000lb trucks. So, I am extremely familiar with both the legal and the practical side of what is safe. I have zero reason to do anything that would jeopardize public safely or abuse equipment (especially considering I'm the one that has to fix it).

HA!!
dude brought receipts!!
good.
as I had to guess on some stuff I do wonder how close my posts were to actual data.
if too pissed off to bother I understand, but I gotta say I love this post.

 

[Whitbread]

Haha. Don't let the armchair quarterbacks get you all defensive, whit. $24k sounds pretty great for an almost new cab tractor! Is that blue machine on the diamondC the NH1620 you replaced with the M-F?

I'm just breaking out some math, that's all! I thought the price was quite reasonable for what it was. I looked at buying new, but I just couldn't stomach ~$40k for a 35-40hp with a loader and a blower. Clearly no one knew what a grease gun was on this tractor though, I had to beat all the front lower loader pins out.

Yes, the 1620 with all attachments is currently up for sale to help offset the cost of the massey. I also have a bone stock 1520 with a loader that I previously purchased as a parts tractor to steal the loader off of. Well it turns out it just had a hydraulic leak inside the bellhousing and was 100% functional when filled with oil. So I'm going to split that in the new few weeks and sell it off also once repaired. In theory, I should end up around $10k out of pocket to upgrade to the massey with a new set of tires, 3rd function kit, 2 additional rear remotes, mid pto, and front blower setup.

Great sound-off Whit ! You never uttered a harsh word and never bragged your credentials until what Deezler rightly calls armchair quarterbacks jumped on ya for no good reason. Atta boy !!

Nice tractor acquisition. Banks are like that -- they have little idea what it is in the first place and cutting their losses becomes very attractive. Good deal.

We all have opinions, but I don't go raining on other peoples parades without a good reason. So if someone wants to talk crap, you better have something to stand on because we're going to math the hell out of it.

They certainly had an idea, but at the same time wanted to get rid of it. I'm sure the dealer tried to lowball the crap out of them to buy it before I did.

HA!!
dude brought receipts!!
good.
as I had to guess on some stuff I do wonder how close my posts were to actual data.
if too pissed off to bother I understand, but I gotta say I love this post.

It was a business trip, so of course I have all the receipts! I'm still very impressed by the final MPG, I really figured it would be lower since the tractor was a sail. Glad to brought some humor to someone's day!




Took advantage of the cool day to get some spring clean up done after working. I'm happy to report the soft start pto is very gentle even with a 200lb overdriven flywheel in the chipper. My neighbor has a 1 series deere that slams the pto on and I had concerns all e-pto engagements would be that way.

 

[Rockbadchild]

it probably simply look deceiving with the air bags and weight distribution bars but you can see 3/4 of the tractor in front of the axels i would’ve place it at the same spot…

 

[deezler]

In theory, I should end up around $10k out of pocket to upgrade to the massey with a new set of tires, 3rd function kit, 2 additional rear remotes, mid pto, and front blower setup.

Not bad. Very resourceful of you, though I'd expect nothing less. Take some pics and keep us updated on your progress once in a while, eh? BTW how many hours on the Massey?

Now explain the math to us of what the heck is going on with your lawn in that last photo, LOL. J/K, j/k, it looks like a pretty typical northern-Michigan dirt plot.

 

[sea2summit]

Would you like to offer some explanation as to why it "doesn't look that great"? There are ~3.5" diameter helper bags inside the rear coil springs. At 45psi, that is 430lbs of lift per bag. The weight distribution bars were not cranked, but were certainly not loose. That is good for another 300-350lbs of lift. So that is easily 1200lbs of lift force to combat tongue weight and the rear end was still 1-1.5" lower than empty. At a tractor weight of 3800lb, trailer weight of 2100lb, the general 20% tongue weight rule gives us a number of 1180lbs target. Considering I had ~1200lb of lift and the rear was still sagging, that tells us I'm over 20% of tongue weight and plenty in the safe zone.

What is wrong with the load placement on the trailer? The edge of the bucket was 3" from the front edge of the deck. It literally was as far forward as it could go. Putting the tractor on backwards would have yielded way too much tongue weight.

If you want to discuss braking safety, a 2008 F150 has 13" front and 12.5" rear disc brakes. Guess what the jeep has? The exact same sizes. It also has a dana 44 based solid rear axle. So anyone who says towing this load with a 1/2 ton truck would be safer has no basis to stand on.

The trip was a total of 3104 miles and 210.42 gallons of diesel used. That makes for a total trip MPG of 14.75. Would you like to see the trip odometer and the fuel receipts? I hauled a 4400lb vehicle to the NW side of houston and picked up the tractor on the way back. The only time I ran empty was from Bryan TX to Chickasa OK.

...
I don't normally do any horn tooting, but apparently it's necessary here. I have an associates degree in automotive high performance technology, diesel technology, and alternative fuel technology. I have another associates degree in mechanical engineering. I have a CDL A and a "big" truck and trailer for loads that require it. I have owned a machine shop/fabrication/diesel repair business for close to 14 years now. I'm also a firefighter on 2 departments and regularly drive 45,000lb trucks. So, I am extremely familiar with both the legal and the practical side of what is safe. I have zero reason to do anything that would jeopardize public safety or abuse equipment (especially considering I'm the one that has to fix it).

Heaven forbid I question someone with not one but two associates degrees.

Might want to take some of those mechanical engineering classes again if you think turning that tractor around would increase the tongue weight. Without loaded rears the majority of your weight is on the front axles if you have a FEL.

 

[Whitbread]

Not bad. Very resourceful of you, though I'd expect nothing less. Take some pics and keep us updated on your progress once in a while, eh? BTW how many hours on the Massey?

Now explain the math to us of what the heck is going on with your lawn in that last photo, LOL. J/K, j/k, it looks like a pretty typical northern-Michigan dirt plot.

Will do! Got the hydraulic top link mounted today and going to get a set of tires on thursday. It rolled 760 hours running the chipper yesterday. Judging by the lack of wear on the loader joystick/bucket and geographic location, I have to assume mowing or hay was the primary duty of this tractor by the previous owner. It's very clean for the number of hours on it in such a short time.

Yeah....that's what a "yard" in the woods with 2 huskies looks like. Any grass that tries to grow gets torn up by them, doesn't get enough light, or gets too much foot traffic. By the end of summer, there will be some patches here and there that might need hit with a weed wacker. I absolutely do not miss maintaining a proper lawn.

Heaven forbid I question someone with not one but two associates degrees.

Might want to take some of those mechanical engineering classes again if you think turning that tractor around would increase the tongue weight. Without loaded rears the majority of your weight is on the front axles if you have a FEL.

I'm still waiting for any data or scientific reasoning to support your predominately negative opinions in this thread. Your original complaint was that I didn't have enough tongue weight. I went over the math that proves I had over 20%.

Now lets explore loading the tractor backwards in regards to your claim that it will reduce tongue weight.

I absolutely agree that the front axle will carry a higher percentage of total vehicle weight when the rears are not loaded. Now do you also agree that the center of mass of the tractor must be somewhere between the two axles?

If it was on top of or beyond either axle, the tractor would be blown over by a breeze or flip over standing still.

Pacing it off for some napkin number crunching, it is 9 heel to toe paces of my size 13 boots from the edge of the front bucket (the limiting factor to how far forward the tractor can be loaded onto a trailer) to ~1'-1.5' behind the front axle where the center of mass should approximately be. Pacing from the point of the rear tire that would've bumped the tool box on the trailer, we are 5 heel to toe paces to the same point behind the front axle. That means if the tractor was loaded backwards and placed as far forward as possible, the center of mass of the tractor will be ~4' closer to the tongue of the trailer than loaded forward facing as far as possible. Running the math with a 60-70% front weight bias, a mass of approximately 2200-2500lbs (based on 3800lb total weight) will be moving ~4' closer to the tongue.

We can continue the math to calculate the rough positive delta in tongue weight that would have, or can we just agree that logical reasoning says the tongue weight will significantly increase with the center of mass moving ~4' closer to the tongue?

 

[deezler]

Might want to take some of those mechanical engineering classes again if you think turning that tractor around would increase the tongue weight. Without loaded rears the majority of your weight is on the front axles if you have a FEL.

Yeah! Lets argue on the internet! First, what are your degrees? lol

I think it's pretty obvious that putting it on backwards and backing the rear tires up to the front rail of the trailer would get the center of gravity significantly further forward. (hence increasing tongue weight).

 

[Dmacleo]

and all the internet warriors here think tongue weight while towing is all that matters.
heres what matters.
the ratio.
enough tongue weight that your tongue sits on ground = you are screwed.
too little tongue weight (related to tail weight) means you'll be one of those videos on youtube where your vehicle is going down road crossing 2+ lanes.
IOW you are screwed.
too many people have no ACTUAL data about any ******* thing on this SPECIFIC setup yet are all too willing to tell everyone what they did wrong.
with no actual damned data.
those people suck.

 

[Whitbread]

Ended up racking up 20 hours on the 1740m this weekend! A tornado hit downtown so a few other firemen and myself piled in my truck and headed to town to help clean up. I'm extremely impressed overall with the tractor. The rear tires are 47" tall for scale of the black walnut log. I ended up with 2 gooseneck loads of it .