Joplin MO disaster

[JB4310]

Before and after pix that help put things in perspective. Sorry if DP
Joplin MO tornado: At least 89 dead as twister cuts 4-mile swathe through Missouri town | Mail Online

Absolutely incredible, the psychological damage to those living there, even if they didn't suffer direct losses must be overwhelming.
Like waking up in post fire bombed Dresden, Germany in WW2.
There's a word they usually use to describe that, "Conflagration" often associated with fire, but not always, I think it's fitting here.

JB.

 

[dmccarty]

Absolutely incredible, the psychological damage to those living there, ...

During my first visit to the Floyd flood I was right at the edge of the flood water in this town. For the most part the flood slowly rose and did not tear up structures but at this point there was a railroad track that acted as a dam and the flood waters did flow through a low spot and shattered and old trailer and this little building holding a small general store.

I was talking to some kids who had lived in the houses that had flooded. The water was slowly going down but there were still two streets under water. All over the place were shinny pieces of hard coal from the general store. The owner of the store had to be at least 60-70, maybe older. His brick house was next to the store and was structurally fine but flooded out. It could be gutted and rebuilt. The owner was wondering around in shock. He looked like he had about lost his mind and was looking to find it. His work of a lifetime was gone. Strewn all over like little bits of black coal.

The kids were talking about their houses that had been flooded out. As well as aunts, uncles, grand parents, cousins, etc. Entire generations wiped out.

The old man set down on his front steps and a Red Cross van drove through handing out styrofoam containers with spaghetti from a can. The look of that old man eating canned spaghetti from a styrofoam container will never leave me. One of the men I was with walked over and gave the man a $50 bill out of his own pocket. A lot of money but a spit in the flood water of need.

I will never forget the man nor the name of the street still under water. It was Water Street.

Later,
Dan

 

[hr3]

When a disaster like this happens why can't our military take Infrared satellite pictures for the rescuers to help them find trapped people ???

I'm not asking if they could find a dead body,, but a body puts out heat,, that heat heats what is around it,, If they can count the eggs on a table from space then a warm spot in the rubble shouldn't be a problem,,, Even bring the U-2 down a bit lower and use it's special skills,, ????

 

[JB4310]

I'm not asking if they could find a dead body,, but a body puts out heat,, that heat heats what is around it,, If they can count the eggs on a table from space then a warm spot in the rubble shouldn't be a problem,,, Even bring the U-2 down a bit lower and use it's special skills,, ????

The standard would be FLIR
Forward looking infrared - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Works great for finding a fugitive in the underbrush, but I'm not sure how effective it would be in those piles of debris. I don't think they are so sensitive to discern that little bit of heat coming thru the pile, plus I believe depending on the ambient temps, the hotter it was outside, the more difficult it would be pick out the difference.

JB

 

[keegs]

Gotta love this:

"There's gotta be a starting point somewhere ..I mean we can stand around and stare at it or we can roll up our sleaves and jump in and start trying to take care of what needs to get done..."


Making a Difference

 

[dmccarty]

I'm not asking if they could find a dead body,, but a body puts out heat,, that heat heats what is around it,, If they can count the eggs on a table from space then a warm spot in the rubble shouldn't be a problem,,, Even bring the U-2 down a bit lower and use it's special skills,, ????

I do not think you understand how much debris a person could be buried under. The house destroyed by the tornado I worked on, was a pile of rubble up to 6 feet deep. Even after a days worth of work by over a dozen people including two tractors we had only reduced on side of the house to about 2 feet deep while the other side was a good 3-4 feet with huge voids.

We have great technology that is really magic. Seeing a body buried under the 2-3 feet of debris would be very advanced magic I do not think we have. I do not know of any heat related technology that could see me through my roof. If the house collapse around me and buries me on lumber, insulation, wire, pipes, duct work, drywall. house hold goods, etc., it is even worse.

The reality is that the odds of anyone surviving a house reduced to a pile of rubble is pretty much zero.

The tornado site I worked had four homes hit by the storm. Three homes were destroyed and reduced to rubble. In those three homes, three people died. There was one home that was destroyed but structurally intact. The people in that house lived. If the house was reduced to debris, the people inside died. From talking to the responding VFD two of the people sounded like they died from crush injuries. One died because his leg was almost severed and I assume he bled out.

Later,
Dan

 

[scott_vt]

I do not know of any heat related technology that could see me through my roof. If the house collapse around me and buries me on lumber, insulation, wire, pipes, duct work, drywall. house hold goods, etc., it is even worse.

The reality is that the odds of anyone surviving a house reduced to a pile of rubble is pretty much zero.

Later,
Dan

Good Mornin Dan,
Let me start by saying I offer my prayers to all those people affected by this tragedy... not only in Mo but all those who have had to indure a wicked tornado season !

Dan, in the fire service we routinely use thermal imaging cameras for search and rescue operations, in fire operations...

This equipment could be used to aid rescue personnel, but as you stated, being buried by piles of sheetrock, plywood and framing lumber etc, I would think its usefullness would be drastically limited !

Night time application of this equipment would be best IMHO ...

 

[hr3]

I do not think you understand how much debris a person could be buried under. The house destroyed by the tornado I worked on, was a pile of rubble up to 6 feet deep. Even after a days worth of work by over a dozen people including two tractors we had only reduced on side of the house to about 2 feet deep while the other side was a good 3-4 feet with huge voids.

We have great technology that is really magic. Seeing a body buried under the 2-3 feet of debris would be very advanced magic I do not think we have. I do not know of any heat related technology that could see me through my roof. If the house collapse around me and buries me on lumber, insulation, wire, pipes, duct work, drywall. house hold goods, etc., it is even worse.

The reality is that the odds of anyone surviving a house reduced to a pile of rubble is pretty much zero.

The tornado site I worked had four homes hit by the storm. Three homes were destroyed and reduced to rubble. In those three homes, three people died. There was one home that was destroyed but structurally intact. The people in that house lived. If the house was reduced to debris, the people inside died. From talking to the responding VFD two of the people sounded like they died from crush injuries. One died because his leg was almost severed and I assume he bled out.

Thank you Dan,, No I didn't realize the depth of the debris and as you put it so equivalently I am beginning to understand.. and will be stopping by our local Red Cross for a well needed donation,,

 

[dmccarty]

Thank you Dan,, No I didn't realize the depth of the debris and as you put it so equivalently I am beginning to understand.. and will be stopping by our local Red Cross for a well needed donation,,

HR3, I was worried my first sentence would be taken wrong. I was afraid the sentence sound too harsh even though that was not the intent.

As bad as the disaster photo are, it is far worse when you are walking through what used to be someone's life.

The man in the local VFD that first responded to the scene was certified to go into destroyed structures. That is not something I would have wanted to do. Thankfully he did not have too.

One of my big worries during the clean up was the nails, stables and other debris. We had a least a dozen people working all day and two tractors. I was worried that people were going to get hurt. The way the guys were running the tractors would have filled up the Safety forum for days. :laughing:

Thankfully only one guy got cut he and he did not even notice. Though the way he bled made me think he was taking aspirin. I was wearing my work boots with a steel toe and shank. Even being careful, I felt a nail go into the boot and into the steel shank.

One of the many freaky things I saw during the cleanup was photos. The day I was helping out was several day after the storm and the family had been working to get valuable out of the debris for days. As we dug down in the pile, I found near the ground, two photos. Not from the house we were working on but from the two houses hundreds of yards across the road.

Those houses got hit first and the photos somehow where buried UNDER the debris from the house I was working on. There were people working in the debris from the other houses and they recognized the people in the photos. They were glad to have the photos back.

Very sad when all you have left is a few photos.

Later,
Dan

 

[JB4310]

Still 100 people missing, doubt anyone buried could still be alive. But I wonder of those 100 how many are really still buried in there, and how many are just on the list for other reasons.

If there is still 100 people still buried in there it's gonna get pretty ugly for those trying to recover the remains, and would lead me to think they don't have enough help

JB.