Junk garage doors

[Pilot]

We had our house built in 1992.

Recently we noticed the garage door was making bad noises as it closed and a glance showed the door coming apart where the door opener attached.

Before investing in a new door for $1,200-1,800, I did a little investigating. Here's what I learned.

Our door has flat panels with flanges. Flanges are just bends in the sheet metal to give the inside of the door strength. They are hollow and as foam insulation fills the door it also fills the flanges.

Turns out that a steel door depends on the integrity of the foam insulation for strength.

The door was made with a gap in the flange on the top panel and a bracket straddling the gap to attach a garage door opener to. 4 bolts hold the bracket to the flange. This bracket is maybe 10 inches long and the gap maybe 2". The bracket ripped the flange off the door panel.

The foam insulation is polyurethane. Polyurethane degrades over time an loses some of it's strength, so the door gradually becomes weaker. Polystyrene is another commonly used foam and doesn't degrade, so it is a better choice.

Door folks say they can do a band-aid fix for about $150, but it won't last more than a couple years. They were impressed that our door lasted 18 years--most of this brand, Wayne Dalton, only last a few years, they say.

Wayne Dalton makes cheap doors that builders like because of the cheap price. Steel thickness on the inside of our door is .0097", or 32 gauge. Most outfits use 27-24 (.0239-.0164") gauge. For comparison, thin aluminum foil is .00051", so that .0097" is only as thick as 19 layers of aluminum foil.

One of the doors I looked at today is made with 25 gauge sheet steel with an 18 gauge, 3 or 4" wide steel strap that goes from one hinge to another all the way down the door below where the opener attaches. Much stronger.

Our door opening has a 45 degree angle at each upper corner for appearance. Looks nice. Impossible to keep the outer seal intact at the angle as the bottom door seal tends to rip it off when the door comes all he way up. I have replaced the seal and in just a few months it started to rip away again. A door installer told me today they rarely last 2 years and they recommend straight across openings.

So if you are building a garage, I hope the foregoing is helpful.

 

[scgargoyle]

Here in coastal FL, we have to install hurricane-proof doors. They are pretty solid. Mine is rated to 180 MPH winds(!) I doubt it would be available in Oregon, though.

 

[jonyyuma]

Pilot, Thanks for the info. I was about to replace a 30 year old door, guess I better not cheap out on it.??Jy.

 

[irvingj]

I had a similar problem, but due to operator negligence.... I forgot I had the bar lock in place and hit the button to open the door... and promptly ripped the bracket off the door.

To make matters worse, the other door, which had never suffered a similar fate, was also beginning to separate, at the door opener-to-door bracket, just due to normal use.

Yes, these are Wayne-Dalton doors.

I was somewhat dismayed, to put it mildly, at the cheesiness of the bracket installation: two small sheet-metal screws into the aluminum skin on the top & bottom, and what looked to be silicone caulking to attach the center part of the bracket to the foam-insulated center section.

On the bracket that pulled off, the sheet metal screws simply pulled out of the aluminum (they're pretty short), and the silicone caluking just ripped off.

What I did: I used 3/16" aircraft-grade birch plywood to increase the surface area, bolted the bracket to that with a section of angle steel for reinforcement, and then used Gorilla Glue on the whole "plate" to attach it to the door. Also used some slightly larger sheet metal screws. No problems since.

In the pics, the first one shows an unused bracket, and how it (normally) attaches to the door; the second pic is my repaired/strengthened bracket attachment.

It's only been 3 years since the repairs, though-- we'll see how it holds up!

 

[Gator6x4]

I have four of the steel insulated doors from this company:

Amarr? Garage Doors

The doors were installed in the early nineties and have given no problems.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Builders use everything they can to just pass inspection.

Toilets, tile, carpet, doors, faucets, lumber, screws, nails, etc.etc.

If they can get it from China for a quarter less they will. I bought a new house and literally everything in it is JUNK.

Slowly I am replacing everything.

 

[George2615]

Must be the week for garage door failures. I just repaired mine today. Originally my door had a wood 2x8 held to the door with 4 carriage bolts. The opener arm was attached to the wood with 4 lag screws.

Last night when the wife came home she asked me to check the air in her tires. The dash display told her they were low. This is mainly due to the cold temperature outside of 10 degrees F. I hit the button to open my 12' x 12' door and ripped the 4 lags right out of the wood because the door was frozen to the concrete floor.

I replaced the wood and added a steel plate with (4) 5/16" bolts to hold the arm. In this cold weather I now have to remember to try and lift the door manually from inside to make sure its not frozen to the floor. Fortunately there is just enough give in the tension spring to do so.

 

[simonds]

All of the door operaters that I install have saftey adjustments on them
If these are adjusted correctly , the operater would reverse if there was any obstruction. Frozen down door should stop the opener quickly before any damage could be done.
I have been in the building business for 41 years and have never used cheap materials or took shortcuts on my labor. We do it right to begin with and have never yet had any problem with a garage door operater. I have heard of many of people that have had a problem, due to the way they installed it or the homeowner just had to buy the cheapest unit they could find, and install it themselves.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Builders use everything they can to just pass inspection.

Toilets, tile, carpet, doors, faucets, lumber, screws, nails, etc.etc.

If they can get it from China for a quarter less they will. I bought a new house and literally everything in it is JUNK.

Slowly I am replacing everything.

It isn't fair to lump every builder together. While I know there are contractors that go for the quick buck and don't care it isn't fair to say they are all that way. A lot depends on the area as well. If they are in an area where the economy is good then they will spend more on materials when building a house to sell as they know it will sell better. If they are in an area where the economy is poor then they have to buy and build accordingly. Then if the builders are building for someone else to sell then they are also being advised what to use.

When we buy a house to fix and resell we have to weigh out how much we can actually spend and still make a few dollars. It doesn't take much to sink $50k into a house thats only worth $40k. We are doing this to a house we bought on taxes right now. We know what its worth in this area and that gave us our budget. So far we had to rebuild the entire garage roof as the old one had collapsed. So new trusses and a completely new roof there with the rest being stripped and reshingled. It needs a new furnace and we are going with a high efficiency unit as well as a high efficient hot water tank so that we only have PVC vent and breather lines instead of having to run a stack or a chimney. It needs all new windows, doors, siding, soffit and carpeting as well as a new garage door and the electric needs to be redone (new service, panel and update all the outlets). The plumbing was winterized before the house was abandoned so hopefully that will be ok but we won't know till we pressure test the system. Then it needs a new coat of paint throughout the entire house and the garage needs all new firecode drywall. All that and still the house is only going to be worth $55-$60k to sell in this area. So yeah, we can save money and buy all cheap materials, cheap furnace, could have rebuilt the roof the same way it was (even though it was flawed), shingled over the old roofing, etc. etc. etc. But it would have looked like crap and we wouldn't want our name associated with it.

We actually enjoy trying new products on our own houses as it allows us to try things without having to learn something new on a customers house. So we don't use all cheap materials, we use what is actually needed and if we want to go above the standard we do but we never cut corners as it will look like crap and usually cost more in the end that its worth.

Now on my own house its a completely differnet story. I try just about every new system or material I can. I try to have fun with my own houses but I know I can never get my money back out of them. I don't know if I will sell my current house but my last house was a complete remodel inside and out and I broke even on it so I wasn't too upset. I had a lot of fun with it and it was a very nice house. But my current one is going to never allow me to break even if I sell.

 

[magicheater]

It isn't fair to lump every builder together.

Exactly!