Just Another One of Those Days!

[Bird]

I went to Home Depot this morning and before I got back, my wife called me on the cell phone to tell me the electricity just went off. So I called to report the outage, and fortunately, it was only a little over an hour before they had it fixed.

Then just before noon, I noticed a puddle under my pickup in the garage; automatic transmission fluid. The last time I let the dealer change oil & filter, I had the transmission flushed, too. I had checked it once and noticed it was overfilled. I wasn't too happy about that, but thought maybe it wasn't enough to hurt anything. Anyway, I went to the dealer and they said they took out about a quart and a half and cleaned everything under there and there's no damage. Of course, I've still got to finish cleaning the garage floor.

Then about 3 p.m., it seemed too warm in the house. I found the thermostat set for 77, the temperature showing 80, and the air-conditioner was not running. I checked and found the breakers OK, the reset button for the high pressure cut off was OK, so I turned the switch on the thermostat from "auto" to "on" and everything started working. However, the air coming from the vents was only 72 to 75 degrees (98 degrees outside). I called a service company I used once before and was told the earliest they could have anyone out here would be Tuesday (4 days), so I called another company and they had a young man out pretty soon. Freon level was good, amps being pulled was good, filter was clean, we turned it off, turned it back on, on Auto, it works, can't find anything wrong with it, but it just won't get as cold as I think it should, or as cold as it has been getting, so temperature went up to 81 in the house. It's a 10 year old Rheem heat pump. It's been running continuously now for the past 4 hours and has lowered the temperature in the house one degree.

If I have to replace the whole thing in the near future, what would you recommend? The young fellow who was here said he'd recommend an Amana for a total cost of $5,500.00 parts and labor.

 

[dex3361]

Just replaced my 20 year old rheem 3 ton heat pump last weekend. The Rheem was still working fine its just that it is 20 years old and the pan is about rusted though. I could only get 1 fellow to come and give me an estimate and for a 13 SEER Rheem he wanted $7200 to install. I could not belive it, it was just a swap and replace the lines(2 guys 8 hours). So I found an outfit that would sell me a 3 ton 14 SEER Goodman (Goodman makes Amana and Janitrol) for everything including a new lineset and a Thermostat for $3100 but I would have to install it. I would go with the 14 SEER in the Amana because it gets you the Copeland scroll compressor and they are supposed to have a longer life (Rheem uses the Copeland scroll compressor as well). I didnt have to buy gas because the unit comes precharged and I borrowed a vacuum pump. I also bought a set of guages for $80(included in the $3100 price that I quoted). The system that I have is a split system where the condensing unit sets outside and the evaporator sets inside with copper lines between them.

 

[texbaylea]

Bird

You did not mention it but did you change the filter and you could also clean up inside the air handler. Is it belt driven or direct drive? might have a problem there. Does the air flow seem like it was before?

I have an old system (electric heat) that I am thinking about replacing with a heat pump system. I am amazed at the prices but I think a lot of them have gone out of business so less competition.

Vernon

 

[Bird]

Vernon, my current HVAC has one of those monstrous Aprilaire 2200 filters and I watched the young fellow pull it out and look around inside the evaporator coils. This kind of filter is only supposed to need changing once a year and I change it every September.

 

[DIRTROAD]

BIRD, Check on getting a new AC unit through your power company. Around here they will give discounts and incentives for upgrading old out of date equipment. I would imagine that they would have to have competitive pricing as well, Just a thought!!

 

[jinman]

Bird, it seems you are not having the luck I had earlier this week. It just sounds like you may have a plugged dryer or something similar. I believe your air temperature coming out of your evaporator should be in the 60s. Is it possible you have a leak in your ducting and are drawing in hot attic air. It's been 103.6 here for the last hour, and my house is very cool with my 4 ton York heat pump. During the day we set the temperature at 80. With our ceiling fans, that's perfect. If I set the thermostat to 75, it will drop the temperature in a hurry. My outside unit is on the east side of my house, so it is shaded in the afternoon. I don't think your Rheem should be having trouble with cooling your house. How many tons is your unit?

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Jim, something ain't right, but I'm not sure what. Our little house is only 1295 sq. ft. and this Rheem has always kept it cool in the past. The thermostat always shows a little higher temperature than the actual temperature but I don't know of any way to adjust that. Anyway, I've been just leaving it set on 77 and it's always actually been cooler. But yesterday I set it on 76 and it ran continuously for hours. It caught up and shut off sometime during the night, so at 5:30 this morning, the thermostat was set on 76 and it showed to be 76 and it was not running. It did not appear to need it, but even so, I washed out the condensor coils this morning about 6:30 and reset the thermostat for 77. For awhile this moring, it was cycling normally and the house was staying plenty cool, but now this afternoon, it's running continously. The thermostat shows the temperature to be 82, although my more accurate thermometer shows 78. NWS says it's 101 outside. So with ceiling fans running, it isn't too bad, but I don't think it's right either. I've forgotten and not sure now, but I think this is a 3.5 ton unit.

 

[Marlowe]

I'm not sure Bird but it sounds to me like the young fellow missed something. I'm betting that the air flow into the coils is hampered by some kind of blockage even though the filter is changed regularly.

 

[Bird]

Marlowe, I agree that maybe he missed something, but I'll have to admit, if he did, I sure don't know what it could be. The volume of air coming out of the vents "feels" normal; just not as cold as I think it should be.

 

[Marlowe]

Last year I pulled my unit apart and cleaned the coils on the intake side to the unit. It looked like a couple of the dogs had been sucked into the unit from all the dog hair on those coils. Funny thing is that the air flow from the vents had just become what I would notice to be less than it was. What alerted me to the fact that they needed to be cleaned was the ice that was building up on the piping outside. I figured that ice was a bad sign when it was in the nineties outside.

I don't know why but this reminds me of a time a few years ago when a relay went bad on my mom's unit. I pulled the relay and went to the parts house to get another one. The fellow at the counter told me he wasn't supposed to sell these parts to a homeowner. I told him that if I wasn't a home owner I wouldn't need it. He sold me the part. I understand where he was coming from though. Untrained people are part of the problem with respect to freon being released into the atmosphere. I got my freon handling license many years ago, and mostly all it took was the twenty dollar fee for the class.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Bird I used to work on Ruud units, same as rheem, about 10 years ago. One thing that can happen is when you take the blower door off everything looks fine, but with the door closed and the fan running it can pull the insulation off the inside of the unit and restrict air getting into the blower itself. Is the blower clean? The blower is not hard to pull out, should be a plug with all the wiring connections in it, just unsnap it, should be 2 sheetmetal screws to remove and the blower unit slides out. Other than that pull the filter and look in the return duct and see if the insulation is coming loose and blocking the filter.

These things above are probably not happening if the pressures looked ok, and if they were happening you would probably have a coil freezing up. Also with the blower unit out you should be able to look up through the air handler and see the bottom of the coil (upflow I assume) and see if it is dirty.

Does your outside unit sit in a position with the sun directly on it? Does your outside unit have stuff growing near it possibly blocking air to it?

Aside from those things drill a small hole in the supply duct just ahead of the coil and see what your discharge air temp is.

 

[2manyrocks]

Checking your air temperature in the duct is a good idea to determine if the unit is really cooling, but maybe a control is messed up and turning it off before it totally cools your house.

Did it just start this when your power went off or have you had any cooling problems before this?

Do you have a simple T stat or some kind of electronic, programmable T Stat?

Was there a power surge that damaged the controls?

 

[Bird]

Does your outside unit sit in a position with the sun directly on it? Does your outside unit have stuff growing near it possibly blocking air to it?

Yep, the sun is on it most of the day, but nothing is growing around it that could block the air to it.

have you had any cooling problems before this?

No.

Do you have a simple T stat or some kind of electronic, programmable T Stat?

It's a digital display, programmable, but I've never used the programmable feature. I keep in on "manual" and never change anything except to raise or lower the temperature setting and very rarely do even that. We leave it on the same termperature setting 24/7.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Bird this is a simple question, but when was the last time you changed the batteries in your T-stat? I have seen that right there cause some strange problems, but usually the stat doesn't work at all if the batteries are bad. (reminds me I need to change mine)

Only other thing I can figure is if your unit is in the sun it will work harder, but you said it has worked fine for years up until recently.

 

[Bird]

when was the last time you changed the batteries in your T-stat?

I can't find where I made myself a note like I usually do. I know I changed the battery once, and we've been here 3.5 years, so I'll try to remember to check that tomorrow.

One thing I've always known about this thermostat is that it always shows a higher temperature than the actual temperature. All summer, I keep it set for 77 degrees, but that's actually 71 or 72. Now early this morning, it was set for 77, showed to be 77, but I didn't check the actual temperature. However, it has run continuously all afternoon. Although the setting has stayed on 77, it showed the temperature got up to 81.

Now the oddest part. Even though the unit is still running and showing 80 degrees, I just checked with a better thermometer and right at the thermostat, it's 74 degrees. Then I went to one of the registers in the ceiling closest to the unit in the attic and the air in that duct is 59 degrees.

I'll be getting up in the attic Wednesday and do some more checking up there then.

And I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions.

 

[Birdhunter1]

One thing I've always known about this thermostat is that it always shows a higher temperature than the actual temperature. All summer, I keep it set for 77 degrees, but that's actually 71 or 72. Now early this morning, it was set for 77, showed to be 77, but I didn't check the actual temperature. However, it has run continuously all afternoon. Although the setting has stayed on 77, it showed the temperature got up to 81.

Now the oddest part. Even though the unit is still running and showing 80 degrees, I just checked with a better thermometer and right at the thermostat, it's 74 degrees. Then I went to one of the registers in the ceiling closest to the unit in the attic and the air in that duct is 59 degrees.

So does your house feel cool enough?
Change the batteries and see what happens. All of them I have ever dealt with take 2 double A batteries. it sounds like your t stat isn't functioning right.

 

[jinman]

Now the oddest part. Even though the unit is still running and showing 80 degrees, I just checked with a better thermometer and right at the thermostat, it's 74 degrees. Then I went to one of the registers in the ceiling closest to the unit in the attic and the air in that duct is 59 degrees.

I'll be getting up in the attic Wednesday and do some more checking up there then.

Sure sounds like you are losing cold air from the duct or the duct is not insulated well and is taking on heat from your attic. You know it must be hotter than hades up there during this weather. 59 degrees at the register seems to indicate your evaporator is working just fine. Of course, I don't have an attic. I have 4 in of foam with reflective foil and over 2" of wood between my loft ceiling and the top of my house. That and my metal roof seem to really be efficient. All my ducting is between the floors or inside a fir-down in my garage. Good luck Bird, and be careful in the attic in this heat.

 

[Bird]

My wife thought the 2 AA batteries in her TV remote were weak, too, so I went and bought new batteries this morning and put new batteries in her TV remote and in the HVAC thermostat. But then I went and got my multimeter and found the old batteries from the TV remote showed 1.3 volts, but the ones from the thermostat showed 1.5 volts. They are Duracells with a date on them of Mar 2013, so I don't think those batteries were the problem, but I left the new ones in anyway. And the A/C is cycling normally this morning.

Jim, I guess it's possible that there's a leak in the ductwork, but I don't see how that could have happened since no one has been up there except me or that service man and I was there watching what he did. This house has the round flexible type ducts in the attic, and very deep (a foot or more) insulation up there. I go up once a month and put just a little bleach in the condensation drain, and yes, it's hotter'n hades up there.

 

[Egon]

Without any knowledge at all could one of the electronic component control units be heating up over time and stop working correctly??

I'm saying this as it has worked well in the morning but as the run time increases it starts to fail.

 

[RobertN]

A no load voltage test will only tell if you have voltage. A worn battery might show good voltage, but not flow any current under load.

Kinda like having poor flow from a hose attached to a water tank. The water tank may be full(like measuring 1.5 volts on a 1.5 volt AA battery). But, the hose may be restricted or clogged(ie no current flow from the battery).

My wife thought the 2 AA batteries in her TV remote were weak, too, so I went and bought new batteries this morning and put new batteries in her TV remote and in the HVAC thermostat. But then I went and got my multimeter and found the old batteries from the TV remote showed 1.3 volts, but the ones from the thermostat showed 1.5 volts. They are Duracells with a date on them of Mar 2013, so I don't think those batteries were the problem, but I left the new ones in anyway.