Just ordered JM354 - thanks for the help

bluechip · Jul 7, 2005

about half the starters were replaced during assembly, they just didnt crank strong enough for us. the other half are devided pretty equally between bad solenoids and bad windings. Most of these are on Yangdong eninges although I have had two bad starters on the Fiedongs used in the KM454/554.
I am sure we could reclaim some of them. If I was ordering a crate tractor I would want an extra starter because it is one of the few parts we have needed right out of the crate.

SPIKER · Jul 7, 2005

I only bought ONE starter & one alternator, haven't needed either one infact my china battery which is weakened from me leaving the key on for over a week killing the battery it still cranks & starts just fine with low battery voltage. I've started mine using battery & glow plugs in 20 below cold ambiant temps! yes only reason I even tried was I was stuck in the driveway in deep snow drift which slide me into the yard getting the car stuck. I didn't think the thing would start but she did.

other parts were simple contingency parts, I had full set of parts list prior to buying the tractor & parts. I looked over the manuals, used my own knolage as a mechanical experaince form car & truck repairs and how I intended to use my tractor to determine what I THOUGHT I may need. I also got a parts suggestion list form the china exporter based on his experiance of what has been ordered in the past. the list was pretty much any & every thing I wanted except an injector pump. it was the most expensive part at something like 109 bucks back then. that was a big hunk of my 500 buck budget.

I bought some of these parts because I indendeded and DO use the FEL and BACK HOE a lot infact my tractor only has spent 40 or so percent of it;s time being a tractor the rest of the time it has been bull dozer, tree/brush clearing tool, ditch digger ect. the first day I had it I drove it down to the creek and proceded to drive it head long into a wild rose bush patch some 40' by 100+' long which was 20+ feet high. I tore out roots & stems that were 4+ inches thick! sure it added a few scratches & dirt to the paint but that is why I spent little and got extra parts. I planned on and DO abuse my little tractor often. so far (knock on wood) I haven't broken anything major. even running with the rippers down on the box blade catching an imoveable concrete pier stopping the tractor dead and lifting front end 3 feet into air before the clutch was depressed. It did blow the coolant bypass hose at that time but it was running hard & warm with a huge jolt through the hole tractor. I broke the mounting pins on the rippers (caught 2 of them) but I drove it back into the barn, thinking I may have done more damage that it did. sure I had a heck of a sick feeling but nothing major again. part I needed was one I didn't buy from my on-line reasurch as the hoses can be replaced locally with better items same as belts... I actually used a USED part from my womans T-Bird when I rebuilt the engine on it I also replaced all the hoses one of the heater bypass hoses on the bird happened to fit exactly right except shortened one end about 3"...

all the parts were & are just in case, not that I EXPECT it to break but I EXPECT to work it hard enough to actually break some things... it is a machine all of them break even when maintained and even worse when neglected. while I'm not neglecting it I maintain it but I also abuse it for much more than just tractor work... oh the latest thing has been driving it into the creek and removing so far some 40 cu yards of rock & gravel, some of the rocks are over a cu yard and have managed to tweek the box balde from BACKING into the rocks to dislodge them from the creek/banks..

anyhow I DO have extra injectors, glow plugs, gaket kits, oil pump, starter alt, sleeves, drive shafts, the aformentioned bearings of many sizes 2 clutches, (remember it is a fel bulldozzer) so I expected to wear one out pretty quickly but at 150 hrs I adjusted the orriginal and now it is better than new feeling and has nearly 300 in the 3 years. sure that is 100 hrs a year, but it is a part time tractor not a big farm buisness I use it when I need it it starts right up runs well and has plenty of power for what I need... also for what I paid, Im not very sure many people would do what I did with mine on the first day of ownership???

JOHNS was one of the first guys I wrote to and got info from way back when to actually convince me to go after the JINMA, thanks john it has been a great tractor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mark M

Soundguy · Jul 8, 2005

( 2500-4000 before i'd have to start thinking about anything other than maybee a head gasket.. etc. are those really unrealistic numbers?
)

I think we are reading a little too much into the words. Mark indicated MAY and AFTER 10 Years, and you turned it into 10 YEARS exactly, under )

John.. please keep in mind that I work with tractors that are still going strong and were built in the 50's.... the idea of a rebuild in the first or second decade just seems 'alien' to me..

And lets face it.. the tractors I'm used to are not marvels of modern technology... no cam bearings.. for instance.. those old fords let the cam run bare in the block. ROPE seals as well as leather seals... felt packing instead of neophrene in many places.. like carbs.. etc. Heck.. my old tractors have some parts made from horse hair... nice huh?
Very very inefficient oiling systems.. like partial flow oil systems where a modest 25 % of the oil gets filtered...

oem clutches making it 20-30-40 years... same with stock gennies and starters...

( Bottom line is he bought the parts because he planned to keep the tractor for a long time )

That goes back to my statement. IMHO... 10+ years is a drop in the bucket... half a century+.. now we are talking long term! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy

Soundguy · Jul 8, 2005

( 2 clutches, (remember it is a fel bulldozzer )

I'll give you that one for free.... CUT's just don't stand up well to being used as bull dozers... no matter who makes them. the extra clutches makes sense in that respect.

Ok.. all this said...my take on the parts failure issue with china is that raw materials and 'un/semi-skilled labor must be soooooo cheap that it is more cost effective to make a run of 1000 starters and have.. say... 20% eventual failures, and simply price them for that level of 'value' then say.. have better machine processes and QC / product testing and skilled labor in place and have say.. something like 5% or less fail eventually.. and then price them for THAT 'value'? Am I think right on this one?

To complicate matters. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...Any word on hydro?

Soundguy

bluechip · Jul 8, 2005

I think the problem is poor QC on the part of some of the outside vendors. For example, I think the starter factory shipps ALL the starters they make, most of them are fine.

While we are talking about starters, I am sure many of the failures result from exceeding the 20 seconds craniing, 20 seconds resting rule. It is easy to melt the insulation of the windings if you overheat the starter. This usually happens after changeing the fuel filter and trying to use the starter to bleed the system...

The final QC comes at assembly time. We occasionally find an issue when we assemble a tractor our of the crate.

Just to be clear. Someone buying an assembled tested tractor should not have to stock parts.

As for overhaul, no reason to expect it any sooner on these than any other tractor. The only overhauls we have done are do to lubrication failure and one broken valve, agian early on, just a few hours intor running. I have been in these engines a few times an find the internal components to be to a high standard. Good machine work, fit and finish on internal parts, pistons, rods, bearings, rings etc. An added future benefit down the road is that these are all sleeved engines (dry on Y385) Wet on the TY and FD engines so barring a damaged block, and with the continued availability of parts supplies, these engines could literealy run forever.

So the defective part/component risk is one that is only for the crate buyer or the dealer who assembles his own tractor.

You can get a new Farm Pro now with two year parts and labor. It is my opinion that whatever does not break during the warranty, (save abuse) will most likely last for decades.

Soundguy · Jul 8, 2005

( While we are talking about starters, I am sure many of the failures result from exceeding the 20 seconds craniing, 20 seconds resting rule. )
Baring user abuse.. like trying to bleed lines with the starter.. would you attribute excessive starter use with ard to start engines? possible something that may now be 'better' due to the new epa engines?

( Just to be clear. Someone buying an assembled tested tractor should not have to stock parts.
)

Ok.. that's a good distinction. I was getting the idea that anyone buying one of these tractors had better order spare parts with it. I guess I missed the part about these being ALL crate tractors when people are stocking spare parts.

( are do to lubrication failure and one broken valve, agian early on, )

Early failure is what I expect as 'normal' for engine problems. A tractor that dies at 5 hrs and is replaced actually bothers me less than one that dies at 500 hrs. The 5 hr failure was a 'problem' ... a 500 hr failure ..to me would / could be bad design.. etc.. baring user abuse, outside damage..e tc.

( I have been in these engines a few times an find the internal components to be to a high standard. Good machine work, fit and finish on internal parts, pistons, rods, bearings, rings etc. )

Would you say they are up to US 'small engine' standards? when speaking about the internals?

Do the cranks / cams seem to be good metal?

( added future benefit down the road is that these are all sleeved engines (dry on Y385) Wet on the TY and FD engines so barring a damaged block, and with the continued availability of parts supplies, these engines could literealy run forever.

)

Now there we go.. sleaved engines. A deffinate ++. As you said. As long as the block is good, and bearing shells, liners, and crank/cam and other consumables are available.. that adds a whole new 'value' to the tractor.

Do you ever import replacement engines? about how does the engine cost compair to the tractor.. etc?

thanks for the info. I'm not pulling chains.. I'm doing extended research.

My wife wants a ATV type vehicle to run around the farm.. those are in the 5000$ and up range.. and are well.. useless in my book. I'm trying to steer her into a SCUT for the same proce range.. that would mean a used domestic.. or a new chinese... Probably in the next year it will come down to purchase.. The introduction of the epa engines is a big plus... in my book. Just trying to justify the cost vs. say.. an antique in the same price range. As it is.. looks like both like to be tinkered with from time to time... and the antiques have already proven their loengevity... etc.. just lack of some modern features, and -continued- lifespan becomes an issue with the old ones...

Soundguy

bluechip · Jul 8, 2005

The Y380/385 are a little harder to start than other tractors, I will put the KM series KAMAs up against any gasoline engine for ease of starting, at least at temps around 20deg.

So my experience is only about 2 or 3 percent failure on starters, that customers have experienced in the field about 3 s starters on customers tractors in 2 year period, over 130 units (Jinma, Farm Pro and KAMA). I don't think that is too bad.

Visually speaking the finishes and materials appear to be up to US standards. I am from machine too/manufacturing background so have seen lots of machine work. I have not heard of any camshaft or crankshaft failures in any of these, has anyone else? We have sold crankshafts that were needed as a result of lubrication failures and in one case on a Yangdong engine, thrust washers were not installed from the factory and the crank was damaged, this is an "early failure" caused by poor quality control. (the symptom was a marked reduction of engine RPM when clutch pedal depressed, too much end play in crankshaft. Customer fixed himself.

It is as difficult to import a replacement engine as it is a tractor so they are not abundant here, but the ones I have seen sell for anyware from $ 1600 to $ 3000 depending on size and "scarcity". We are stocking liners, pistons, crankshafts bearings for the KAMA tractors that will probably not be called for for years after seeing the parts.

Check out the Chuck Wagon utility vehicle, honda engine, diff lock 2wd for a little over $4k new, US made.

You seem to have a good handle on what to expect out of one of these Chinese tractors, I would bet that if you go for it you will become a proponent of them, I think you will be impressed with the overall value for the dollar. I would not wait too long, the EPA engines will raise the prices, also the Jinma plant is starting to limit the number of distribution channels in the USA...if demand outweighs supply, you know what will happen...

Soundguy · Jul 9, 2005

( heck out the Chuck Wagon utility vehicle, honda engine, diff lock 2wd for a little over $4k new, US made.
)

Thanks.. I'll chaeck that out.

( heck out the Chuck Wagon utility vehicle, honda engine, diff lock 2wd for a little over $4k new, US made.
)

Believe it or not.. I'm actually not anti-chinese tractor.. I am really more on the proponent side.. I just find myself in devel's advocate situations alot..so I can see both sides of the issue.

I go and test drive units when i find a new dealer or a tool show comes thru, and when giving tractor advice out casually to those looking for a cheap tractor.. I always doo offer up the chinese idea along with the used/antique idea.. and point out that for about the same money.. it is a new unit.. etc.
In this sub.. it just seems that if you are noot 100% behind them people make you out to be 'against' them.. which I'm not. I simply like to do VERY thourough research before I take on another mouth to feed. Believe me. Before i got into collecting ford / nh tractors.. I read every book, magizine.. etc I could find on them.. test drove them.. and 'lurked' in a few ford only subs for a couple years just reading and listening to posts before I ever even made a post on them.. Years later now and I own 5 of them

Soundguy

JINMA224XR · Jul 9, 2005

I always doo offer up the chinese idea along with the used/antique idea.. and point out that for about the same money.. it is a new unit.. etc.


Hey SoundGuy,

I went through this same process years ago, before I bought my first Chinese Tractor.

It was mainly an option to buy an old/very old, used/Very Used Tractor or a Brand New Tractor with modern features, such as PS, 4WD, Canopy to provide Shade and help prevent skin cancer, Adjustable Spring Seat-- which none of the other more expensive Tractors, offered in my size tractor at all, and Brand New Tires/Which doesn't seem like much, until you go to buy them.

I talked to too many fellows that got a really good value, on a used tractor, only to wind up putting in another 2 to 3K, to get it repaired. Of which, they could not get their money's out of the tractor.

I paid 5K for my first Chinese Tractor back in 1990, and sold it in 1997 for 4K. That comes out to be about 143 dollars a year to have that tractor at my beckon call, whenever I needed to use it. Now that won't win me a Blue Ribbon, but In my opinion, that is good value.

SoundGuy, The Chinese Tractors are not as good as the JD, NH, MF, Kabota, and many others, but they are at about 1/2 price, and with proper care and routine maintenance/especially lubrication, they get the jobs done. You should not take them to a Tractor Beauty Contest, expecting to get a blue ribbon, as the John Deere, Kabota, NH, MF, Mahindra, and others will most likely get the ribbons, but there again, you have to pay extra for the Ribbon Prestige.

By all means, continue to kick the tires, but so far, I haven't found a better value.

Get Your Tractors Running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Soundguy · Jul 11, 2005

( ractor with modern features, such as PS, 4WD, Canopy to provide Shade )

If you look around.. you can get 'most' of those options on a late 50's unit. The ford 66X and 86X had/could have PS.. rops/canopy, and live pto. However.. if you want 4wd.. that's where you hit a wall. not alot of 4wd antiques. Same with adjsutable seats. not till the 60's did you see them as oem equipment. Many stayed with pan seats, or slide/cushion seats.. very rarely you ran up on a rest-o-ride or monroe seat.. but that was the exception.. not the rule.

Most of the real common oldies are gassers to.. some people just don't like gassers.

Soundguy