Just ordered my NEW Bobcat CT225! Pic Included!!

[williekioti]

First off, Dirt Litigator; congratulations on your purchase. If it's as closely related to my CK as it looks you'll be more than happy with it's performance.

As to the Good/Bad discussion for this partnership I think it'll be a mixed bag, and Regional at that. Mixed bag as in, definitely good for Kioti Owners(future included), Kioti(Deadong) GOOD and Kioti Dealers ???, probably hurt some, some will be relatively unaffected. Long term what is good for the Corporation will trickle down through the system, so overall I believe it is a good thing. One thing to consider when thinking of Bobcat dealers undercutting Kioti dealer sales is traditionally they are hitting different markets. I don't see Joe Blow homeowner and Freddy Hobby Farmer shopping at Bobcat for equipment 'round here. Likewise I think the construction contractors will continue to do business where they feel comfortable. Is the local Bobcat guy going to know what an ST125 is?(Sales tax exempt form for farm purchases) If not I'm certainly not buying from him, I'm going to the Ag equipment guy.

I'm certainly not an expert in tractor economics and business practices, but my belief is this will be a good thing in the long run. Competition in the market place is a good thing, forces everyone to stay on top of their products. If the market is so full of tractors/companies what about 40-50 years ago when there were dozens of companies? Is it that we are now in a time of decompression/expansion after so many years of condensing of the market? Personally I think it's a good thing that there are more alternatives to the Big Three, good for them too. Look where our (US)automobile companies were 20-25 years ago when they owned most of the market share.

Now more importantly, where do these feline newbies post on TBN?? Do we allow them to post here with their canine family or do they get a new area?

 

[Highbeam]

"Now more importantly, where do these feline newbies post on TBN?? Do we allow them to post here with their canine family or do they get a new area? "

It seems that the Bobcat company has adopted the Toolcat forum area. Not sure what a toolcat is but I am pretty sure that I would like to see the new guys here.

 

[williekioti]

"Now more importantly, where do these feline newbies post on TBN?? Do we allow them to post here with their canine family or do they get a new area? "

It seems that the Bobcat company has adopted the Toolcat forum area. Not sure what a toolcat is but I am pretty sure that I would like to see the new guys here.

Me too.

 

[IslandTractor]

"Now more importantly, where do these feline newbies post on TBN?? Do we allow them to post here with their canine family or do they get a new area? "

It seems that the Bobcat company has adopted the Toolcat forum area. Not sure what a toolcat is but I am pretty sure that I would like to see the new guys here.

Seems to me they are all virtually identical Daedong tractors and should be in the same place (here). The Toolcat is a completely different animal and is further from a CUT than even a PowerTrac so the Bobcat tractor guys will find no useful help there at all (except for advice dealing with Bobcat dealers).

 

[crabjoe]

ok... I got these prices today on the Bobcat. They are suppose to be MSRP (list), but not knowing what Kioti's MSRP is I can't tell which is set higher. Also, being that most people won't pay MSRP and not knowing the true wholesale prices to the dealers, it might not make any difference. Regardless, here's the prices on the tractor.

CT120: $11,500
CT225: $15,300
CT230: $16,235

All three have the option for a backhoe, model 6BT. Dig depth is listed as 77 inches and bucket sizes are 9, 12, 16 and 18 inches.

FEL are listed as 6TL for the CT120 with a max lift height of 73.5 inches. A 48 or 54 inch bucket is available and no capacity is listed. For the other 2 models, 7TL is the model with a max lift height of 85 inches. Three different buckets are available, 54, 60 and 68 inch buckets.

Seems all 3 models only come in hydro; no gear option. The difference I see, other then the color, are the PTO HP, and hydraulics listed. The CT120 is listed only at 14.5hp and the CT225 is listed as 17hp. Both are less then their Kioti counterpart. As for hydraulics, the CT120 is listed at 7.7GPM and the CT226 and CT230 are listed at 12.2GPM.

Hmmmm... I wonder if it's a printing error or if the PTO HP has been reduced on the Cats. Hydraulics variance probably won't make any difference.

BTW, based on the max lift height of the FEL, it looks like Wallace is correct with the info about Cat using Rhino loaders. Rhino has 73" listed for the 2406TL and 85" for the 2407TL. Backhoes must not be from Rhino since all their hoes, have a greater digging depth then 77 inches listed on their site.

 

[IslandTractor]

FEL are listed as 6TL for the CT120 with a max lift height of 73.5 inches. A 48 or 54 inch bucket is available and no capacity is listed.

BTW, based on the max lift height of the FEL, it looks like Wallace is correct with the info about Cat using Rhino loaders. Rhino has 73" listed for the 2406TL .

Based on the assumption that the Bobcat CT120 comes with the Rhino 2406TL loader, it looks to me like Kioti's KL120B will out perform the Bobcat handily. Rhino loader has max lift to full height of 600lbs per Rhino website. That is probably midbucket lift so difficult to precisely compare to Kioti's max 1170lbs at the pivot pins but even a conservative 30% correction factor would leave the Kioti loader with over 800lbs of lift at mid bucket. That's a pretty substantial difference. The Rhino is about the same as the Kubota LA302. Also lift height on the Bobcat is only 73" compared to 88 inches on the KL120. Bucket dump clearance on the Bobcat is 56" vs 69" on the Kioti.

On the CK25/30 the KL130 loader has more lift capacity at pivot pins than the 2407TL Rhino (1155lbs vs 1035) and more breakout force (2046 v 1770).

The tractors are certainly the same but the decision to use the Rhino loaders will hurt Bobcat sales for anyone who is bothering to take the time to compare. Something tells me the Kioti dealers will be pointing this out too.

 

[crabjoe]

Based on the assumption that the Bobcat CT120 comes with the Rhino 2406TL loader, it looks to me like Kioti's KL120B will out perform the Bobcat handily. Rhino loader has max lift to full height of 600lbs per Rhino website. That is probably midbucket lift so difficult to precisely compare to Kioti's max 1170lbs at the pivot pins but even a conservative 30% correction factor would leave the Kioti loader with over 800lbs of lift at mid bucket. That's a pretty substantial difference. The Rhino is about the same as the Kubota LA302. Also lift height on the Bobcat is only 73" compared to 88 inches on the KL120. Bucket dump clearance on the Bobcat is 56" vs 69" on the Kioti.

On the CK25/30 the KL130 loader has more lift capacity at pivot pins than the 2407TL Rhino (1155lbs vs 1035) and more breakout force (2046 v 1770).

The tractors are certainly the same but the decision to use the Rhino loaders will hurt Bobcat sales for anyone who is bothering to take the time to compare. Something tells me the Kioti dealers will be pointing this out too.

After reading your assumption, it makes sense for Bobcat to go with a lower capacity loader.

Although it's an assumption on my part, I don't think Bobcat wants to eat into their own skidsteer sales. To high a lift capacity on the FEL might make people think the tractor is a better buy.

 

[IslandTractor]

After reading your assumption, it makes sense for Bobcat to go with a lower capacity loader.

Although it's an assumption on my part, I don't think Bobcat wants to eat into their own skidsteer sales. To high a lift capacity on the FEL might make people think the tractor is a better buy.

I don't think they'd worry about Bobcat skidsteer sales. Those are different beasts altogether and have greater lift capacity generally than CUTs. I suspect it was a simple matter of not having access to a readily available and trusted FEL option. Don't know why they did not look at Woods or a couple of others that would have given the Kioti loaders more of a run for the money. Kioti loaders, especially the KL120 on a 21hp machine, are pretty potent compared to any competition.

Too bad they screwed up the crack issue so badly as that will undoubtedly be brought up by the Bobcat dealers once they come up to speed on comparative selling pros/cons with the orange tractors. Of course the Bobcat dealers won't mention that the cracked loader style has been redesigned but that sort of misinformation has to be anticipated.

Bottom line for me is that the Kioti versions of these CKs have better loaders by a significant margin.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

The difference I see, other then the color, are the PTO HP, and hydraulics listed. The CT120 is listed only at 14.5hp and the CT225 is listed as 17hp. Both are less then their Kioti counterpart. As for hydraulics, the CT120 is listed at 7.7GPM and the CT226 and CT230 are listed at 12.2GPM.

At what engine RPM? If both engine power and flow are lower then they are probably running the engine RPMs lower. Maybe more in the center of the torque curve, or for longer life or somthing...????

 

[BTI]

I'm wondering if those are CK20's or CK20S's

BTI