just when you thought you knew what stupid was

[RSR]

Pics or it didn稚 happen.

I post these here with the following requested stipulations. Please do not repost/share/etc. These are ongoing investigations.

Shown are snapshots (sequentially labeled A - D), extracted from a video of 2-D CFD simulations of the unsteady (varying in time) particle transport during production of an aspirated f sound. (Think of how you make an "f" sound when saying the word "huff". That is breathy, as opposed to a stop consonant, as when you make an "f" sound when saying a word like "far"). Unfortunately, the whole video (much more interesting) is waaaay too large to upload here. The simulation progresses over a time of 0.4 seconds. The simulation was run with an inlet pressure boundary condition of 600 Pa. This is an estimate of our lung pressure (what forces air out) during comfortable speech. The mouth geometry (small stuff on the left) is an idealized geometry of the vocal tract cross-sectional area when saying "f". The dots are the particles in the flow, which for this early work, was just a uniform distribution between 1 micron (10^-6 m) and 50 micron (5 x 10^-5 m), colored blue to red, respectively. The particles were inserted at the back of the mouth with no initial velocity to replicate them being shed (i.e., produced) at the vocal folds (cords). Velocity fields are not shown, but would be nice to superimpose so you can see both the velocity magnitudes and particle motions at the same time. (Note to self: Tell post-doc to do that).

What does it show?

1) Larger particles lag the smaller particles as the flow accelerates. (Not surprising)

2) As the flow progresses, a vortex ring is produced at the exit of the mouth, which propagates at the leading edge of the puff of air. This is important, and arises for many speech utterances. Vortex rings (think like a smoke ring you can blow) are an annulus of rotating fluid that can self-advect as a coherent structure for very long distances. If you go to youtube and search for videos (e.g., vaping smoke ring) all of the cool kids that vape practice blowing smoke rings. These videos are actually great for teaching fluid dynamics, as they clearly show how once formed, a vortex ring will stay intact, and propagate very long distances. In the video, you can see the rotation of the vortex rings, but these are still snapshots, so ... I've denoted where they are with the overlaid red vectors.

3) Notice, the smaller droplets (that are more likely to penetrate deep into your lungs and infect you) become entrained in the rotational part of the flow. This is kind of like looking at a river and noticing a small, light leaf on the surface of the water will follow all of the little eddies and swirls. A large log, in turn, has enough momentum, it just follows the path of the main river. The droplets do the same thing. The bigger ones (red) follow a largely-ballistic trajectory (straight out, slowly falling to ground). The small ones get entrained in, and follow the smaller eddies/currents.

4) The domain size (from mouth exit to right edge) is 0.75 m (~2.3 feet) It's a pressure-release boundary condition on the right hand side, meaning, it's as if the room keeps going (Particles can pass through the surface) but the simulation stops there. Even 2 feet after leaving the mouth, the particles are nowhere close to slowing down, and the larger ones have maybe just started to settle. It is expected that the larger droplets will eventually fall to the ground, but the smaller ones will stay entrained in the vortical structures of the flow. (Again, watch youtube. Vortex rings can propagate the length of a room). But, those results need to be confirmed with simulations over a larger domain, and with realistic background flow conditions/turbulence intensities. It takes MUCH longer to run larger simulations, so initially we are making sure the particle dynamics look right, and benchmarking the velocity fields with the experimental particle image velocimetry (PIV) measurements in steady flow. I'd show the PIV measurements, but they're pretty boring. In steady flow, it's basically just a slot jet, so nothing too interesting. But, it's important to be able to compare the velocity predicted by the CFD measurements with the experiments to make sure they match, before proceeding.

View attachment ParticlesTrajectories.jpg

 

[RSR]

View attachment 666749

:laughing:

LOL!!!

 

[RSR]

People who need leadership are weak people.

So the military is full of weak people?

 

[CalG]

So the military is full of weak people?

You skipped the service... obviously.

 

[CalG]

Doctor Proves Once And For All, Masks Don't Work Against Viruses - Videos - VidMax.com

"When you're dead you don't know you're dead. It's only difficult for others. It's the same way when you're stupid"

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."

 

[CalG]

I am curious as to the goal of mask wearers, lock down advocates and isolationists.

As masks are to "protect others" Is it so YOU need not be the one to infect another? You can't tell if you are ill? WTF!
Heck the tigers in zoos have the virus. So do the MINK in Utah? What are you gonna do about that? Flatten the curve? So what!?
The Chinese have tested frozen chicken from South America with the virus. (so they say)

Are you waiting for a vaccine? for a virus that changes it's cloak so readily that it can be traced to it's source solely by it's mutation? Get a grip!

What is the goal? It can't be dead ended. (mink and bats and tigers! Oh NO! )

eta

Dr. Fauci: What About the Immune System? • Children's Health Defense

 

[ovrszd]

I post these here with the following requested stipulations. Please do not repost/share/etc. These are ongoing investigations.

Shown are snapshots (sequentially labeled A - D), extracted from a video of 2-D CFD simulations of the unsteady (varying in time) particle transport during production of an aspirated f sound. (Think of how you make an "f" sound when saying the word "huff". That is breathy, as opposed to a stop consonant, as when you make an "f" sound when saying a word like "far"). Unfortunately, the whole video (much more interesting) is waaaay too large to upload here. The simulation progresses over a time of 0.4 seconds. The simulation was run with an inlet pressure boundary condition of 600 Pa. This is an estimate of our lung pressure (what forces air out) during comfortable speech. The mouth geometry (small stuff on the left) is an idealized geometry of the vocal tract cross-sectional area when saying "f". The dots are the particles in the flow, which for this early work, was just a uniform distribution between 1 micron (10^-6 m) and 50 micron (5 x 10^-5 m), colored blue to red, respectively. The particles were inserted at the back of the mouth with no initial velocity to replicate them being shed (i.e., produced) at the vocal folds (cords). Velocity fields are not shown, but would be nice to superimpose so you can see both the velocity magnitudes and particle motions at the same time. (Note to self: Tell post-doc to do that).

What does it show?

1) Larger particles lag the smaller particles as the flow accelerates. (Not surprising)

2) As the flow progresses, a vortex ring is produced at the exit of the mouth, which propagates at the leading edge of the puff of air. This is important, and arises for many speech utterances. Vortex rings (think like a smoke ring you can blow) are an annulus of rotating fluid that can self-advect as a coherent structure for very long distances. If you go to youtube and search for videos (e.g., vaping smoke ring) all of the cool kids that vape practice blowing smoke rings. These videos are actually great for teaching fluid dynamics, as they clearly show how once formed, a vortex ring will stay intact, and propagate very long distances. In the video, you can see the rotation of the vortex rings, but these are still snapshots, so ... I've denoted where they are with the overlaid red vectors.

3) Notice, the smaller droplets (that are more likely to penetrate deep into your lungs and infect you) become entrained in the rotational part of the flow. This is kind of like looking at a river and noticing a small, light leaf on the surface of the water will follow all of the little eddies and swirls. A large log, in turn, has enough momentum, it just follows the path of the main river. The droplets do the same thing. The bigger ones (red) follow a largely-ballistic trajectory (straight out, slowly falling to ground). The small ones get entrained in, and follow the smaller eddies/currents.

4) The domain size (from mouth exit to right edge) is 0.75 m (~2.3 feet) It's a pressure-release boundary condition on the right hand side, meaning, it's as if the room keeps going (Particles can pass through the surface) but the simulation stops there. Even 2 feet after leaving the mouth, the particles are nowhere close to slowing down, and the larger ones have maybe just started to settle. It is expected that the larger droplets will eventually fall to the ground, but the smaller ones will stay entrained in the vortical structures of the flow. (Again, watch youtube. Vortex rings can propagate the length of a room). But, those results need to be confirmed with simulations over a larger domain, and with realistic background flow conditions/turbulence intensities. It takes MUCH longer to run larger simulations, so initially we are making sure the particle dynamics look right, and benchmarking the velocity fields with the experimental particle image velocimetry (PIV) measurements in steady flow. I'd show the PIV measurements, but they're pretty boring. In steady flow, it's basically just a slot jet, so nothing too interesting. But, it's important to be able to compare the velocity predicted by the CFD measurements with the experiments to make sure they match, before proceeding.

View attachment 666758

As a self proclaimed expert you should never, ever post somethin and stipulate that it shouldn't be forwarded because it's an "ongoing investigation"

You lost credibility with that one....

 

[tallyho8]

As a self proclaimed expert you should never, ever post somethin and stipulate that it shouldn't be forwarded because it's an "ongoing investigation"

You lost credibility with that one....

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[CalG]

As a self proclaimed expert you should never, ever post somethin and stipulate that it shouldn't be forwarded because it's an "ongoing investigation"

You lost credibility with that one....

Where should I stand for maximum effect?

 

[MossRoad]

I am curious as to the goal of mask wearers, lock down advocates and isolationists.

As masks are to "protect others" Is it so YOU need not be the one to infect another? You can't tell if you are ill? WTF!
Heck the tigers in zoos have the virus. So do the MINK in Utah? What are you gonna do about that? Flatten the curve? So what!?
The Chinese have tested frozen chicken from South America with the virus. (so they say)

Are you waiting for a vaccine? for a virus that changes it's cloak so readily that it can be traced to it's source solely by it's mutation? Get a grip!

What is the goal? It can't be dead ended. (mink and bats and tigers! Oh NO! )

eta

Dr. Fauci: What About the Immune System? • Children's Health Defense

No. Many people that are infected are asymptomatic. That means they show and feel no symptoms, yet they are still carrying and spreading the virus. This is the most important reason for people to wear masks when in the presence of others... so you don't accidentally and unknowingly spread the virus.

Is that so hard to do?

 

[MossRoad]

Where should I stand for maximum effect?

On the double yellow line, of course.

 

[CalG]

No. Many people that are infected are asymptomatic. That means they show and feel no symptoms, yet they are still carrying and spreading the virus. This is the most important reason for people to wear masks when in the presence of others... so you don't accidentally and unknowingly spread the virus.

Is that so hard to do?

And you know this HOW? Ask yourself. Are YOU ill? suffering from xenophobia perhaps? A "political" disease.

Do you also concern yourself with Pneumonia spread? Over the years, Much more deadly. Have you been negligent?

 

[RSR]

As a self proclaimed expert you should never, ever post somethin and stipulate that it shouldn't be forwarded because it's an "ongoing investigation"

You lost credibility with that one....

If you understood how research works, you would understand that statement. But alas ...

 

[RSR]

Doctor Proves Once And For All, Masks Don't Work Against Viruses - Videos - VidMax.com

"When you're dead you don't know you're dead. It's only difficult for others. It's the same way when you're stupid"

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."

There are so various problems with that video, which can be explained by ... science.

Smoke leaking around the edges does not prove masks don't capture a vast majority of exhaled droplets. It just shows if you wear a loose mask some will escape. That is known. That's one reason why no mask captures 100% of droplets. That's why mask wearing guidelines include minimizing gaps around the edges. All this proves is the guy making the video doesn't know how to wear a mask. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his intellectual capacity.

Furthermore, the average particle size from vaping is around 2 microns. The average particle size when speaking/coughing is about 10 micron and up to 200 micron.

Yes, we know that masks are ineffective at stopping very small (1-5 micron) particles (and smaller). That's precisely why it's important to wear a mask.

The point is to stop the larger droplets (remember, 10 - 200 micron in diameter) before they evaporate into small droplets and you breathe them in, because now they are so small your mask can't stop them. Masks are quite effective at stopping expelled droplets at these larger sizes, which is what's produced when you breathe/cough/speak, as numerous studies have shown.

Regardless of leakage, masks also slow down the velocity of particles that are expelled, reducing the risk of direct impact.

But, this has already been explained numerous times here, and you clearly remain unwilling, or unable, to grasp very fundamental concepts of particle dynamics.

 

[RSR]

You skipped the service... obviously.

I wouldn't call it skipped, as last time I checked, service was not compulsory. But yes, I have not served in the military, yet I have the utmost respect for service members.

But that's neither here nor there. The point is, let's follow your logic.

"Only weak people need leaders."

Well, we all know the military needs and relies on leaders.

Therefore, according to your logic, military members are weak.

Obviously, this is not true, or they wouldn't be in the military.

So, your argument that only weak people need leaders is a logical fallacy.

The same logical approach can be applied to your continued diatribe that science is somehow a dependence on ignorance.

The fact that you can't critically think and identify these inconsistencies in your own belief structure speaks much more to your own ignorance than that of anyone else.

 

[MossRoad]

And you know this HOW? Ask yourself. Are YOU ill? suffering from xenophobia perhaps? A "political" disease.

Do you also concern yourself with Pneumonia spread? Over the years, Much more deadly. Have you been negligent?

I check my temperature every morning before going to work. I wear a mask all day long, except when I'm eating my lunch in my work van. I had pneumonia back in October. I had diminished lung capacity as a child, as well as asthma. I've been able to overcome those through hard work and good doctors. I take care of my wife's elderly parents. Mom is 80 and has a compromised immune system due to organ transplants 13 years ago. Dad is 93 with dementia. So mom is stuck in a house with a crazy person 24/7. If I or my wife gets sick, neither one of use will be able to go over and help them out. So no, I have not been negligent, and, in fact, have been very cautious and aware of what is going on around me.

Why do you oppose wearing a mask around other people?

 

[RSR]

I am curious as to the goal of mask wearers, lock down advocates and isolationists.

As masks are to "protect others" Is it so YOU need not be the one to infect another? You can't tell if you are ill? WTF!

I'm not sure why I waste time responding. Perhaps it's my fear that there are others out there that, similarly, are so frighteningly misinformed.

So, in response...

Approximately 40% of individuals that are infected with the virus exhibit no symptoms. There's even a (don't get scared) "scientific" name for it. They're called asymptomatic spreaders.

Furthermore, if you do get sick, you can spread it to others before you start showing symptoms.

If you are known to be sick, you obviously stay home. But, much of the spread is by people who don't, or haven't started, exhibiting symptoms.

EDIT: I see Moss already addressed this.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm not sure why I waste time responding. Perhaps it's my fear that there are others out there that, similarly, are so frighteningly misinformed.

So, in response...

Approximately 40% of individuals that are infected with the virus exhibit no symptoms. There's even a (don't get scared) "scientific" name for it. They're called asymptomatic spreaders.

Furthermore, if you do get sick, you can spread it to others before you start showing symptoms.

If you are known to be sick, you obviously stay home. But, much of the spread is by people who don't, or haven't started, exhibiting symptoms.

EDIT: I see Moss already addressed this.

You keep it up man! :thumbsup:

I have a guy like this working with me. He refused to wear a mask because he thought people would look at him like he might be infected. It took me weeks to get him to realize he was exactly right. People should look at everyone like they might be infected. And, everyone should consider themselves to be possibly infected. Wearing a mask is a good way to lessen the chance of spreading droplets great distances from your face. The masks, even the crappiest ones, reduce the distance those droplets can travel from your person. I told him I'd feel horrible if I gave him the virus, and then he passed it on to his kids or grandkids. And I'd hope he'd feel the same if he gave it to me, and it killed me or my wife, or her parents, etc.... he finally flipped the switch and admits that it was silly to be concerned about what other people thought of him. He wears his mask every day when around other people now.

 

[CalG]

I check my temperature every morning before going to work. I wear a mask all day long, except when I'm eating my lunch in my work van. I had pneumonia back in October. I had diminished lung capacity as a child, as well as asthma. I've been able to overcome those through hard work and good doctors. I take care of my wife's elderly parents. Mom is 80 and has a compromised immune system due to organ transplants 13 years ago. Dad is 93 with dementia. So mom is stuck in a house with a crazy person 24/7. If I or my wife gets sick, neither one of use will be able to go over and help them out. So no, I have not been negligent, and, in fact, have been very cautious and aware of what is going on around me.

Why do you oppose wearing a mask around other people?

Did you wear a mask last October?

 

[MossRoad]

View attachment 666749

:laughing:

OK, it took me a couple minutes as I'm a fresh water fisherman.... :laughing: