KAMA TS254 Reverse problem

[thingy]

Yeah I believe so,,didn't help? thingy

 

[lakespirit]

I looked at his pics and then into my tractor. I am not seeing the wear he described, but it is the same issue.

thanks, Jeff

 

[thingy]

Maybe go over there and register and ask him/them,,? thingy

 

[greg_g]

I looked over there, and saw was 3rrl's reference to his shuttle shift. Is that the one you're referring to?

Apples and oranges. The KM series doesn't have the same kind of shuttle arrangement as does the TS series. I know, I've got one of each. The pin/spring/ball/detente method is used in both, but location and access is much simpler on the KM series.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

Greg,

You are correct about the ball, etc. not being easy to get to. Does anyone else have some ideas for me? I can't seem to find what's causing this problem? I guess if I have to, I'll wind up pulling the tractor apart like when I replaced the clutch.

 

[greg_g]

My TS354C has only a little over 150 hours on it, but I haven't had any issue with the shuttle yet. It moves very freely, I can see where more spring tension would be desired. But so far I haven't had it pop out of either forward or reverse. On my KM454 on the other hand, it did it almost from Day One. But I was able to fix that by and adustment on the side of the shift lever itself. Right now my 2wd/4wd lever won't stay in 4wd, another spring issue I'm sure. But like I said, it's a helluva lot easier to get at. I'm sure I'll have much more difficulty finding the right spring, than I will actually installing it.

Wish I could be of more help, but I don't wanna take apart something on my own tractor that ain't broke just for the sake of seeing how to get at it.

//greg//

 

[bluechip]

Based on the fact that you have to pull it out of reverse then re-engage reverse, I am thinking something inside the gearbox is amiss. a gear is probably floating on a shaft and is not fully engaging, then pops out, pulling it out of gear may allow it to shift back closer to it's correct position, re-engaging gives another bite on it. We had a similar problem on one tractor that failed our post assembly testing. That one would not stay engaged, as soon as you stepped on the clutch it would release, we would pull it out and put it back in gear (cant remember if it was forward or reverse now) and it would go until the pressure on the gears was relieved when the clutch was pushed in. A similar problem in your tractor might explain why it happens when backing down a hill, once gravity overtakes the tractors own drive, the pressure on the gear train is removed and things can shift. In the one we had, it was a snap ring out of place allowing an idler gear to slide off its bearing. Of course it is deep inside the front portion of the gearbox (shuttle area). You coule try driving on flat ground in reverse stop and step on the clutch and then restart a few times and see if you can get it to pop out under those condidions.

 

[lakespirit]

Preparing to tear into it tonight. Do I separate the tractor at the gear box where it joins to where the 2wd-4wd and the hi-low shifters are? It looks like only 4 bolts. Sound about right?

 

[lakespirit]

Pics from KAMA parts manual. Could you point to a part number and picture number and tell which snap ring I'd be looking for? How do I get inside the case?

Does the whole rear end, etc have to come off???????

 

[bluechip]

The area I have seen this problem in on another tractor is in the Mid connecting housing (page 15 of your parts book if you have the same edition I am looking at) the problem on the other unit was snap ring 6 was out of place, allwoing gear 4 to slide back and forth. this is the idler gear that works with gear 16 to make reverse. To tear down this box you split the tractor, then remove the steering system and anything else attached to the bellhousing area. The mid connecting housing can be unbolted from the transmission/diff housing, rear axle assy and benched for dissassembly, repair.
Sorry for those interested in this thread that dont ahve the book. I don't have all the scanning/picture posting skills to be very impressive on these boards. I did hear that a picture is worth a 1000 words, but i have not found that I can use 1000 words to describe something very effectively...

 

[greg_g]

The problem might very well be as you described Chip. And if I'm all wet, I won't be offended if you tell Jeff to ignore my suggestion. But I recommended to Jeff that he split it between the mid-connect housing and the tranny. That will initially avoid some of the additional dismantling associated with splitting one box forward. With the shuttle box isolated from the tranny, perhaps a little rotational troubleshooting can further isolate which box the problem's in. If it turns out to be in the tranny, he's saved some dismantling and reassembly work.

Since the mid-connect housing internals are not accessible through the bellhousing anyway, why take it off the engine? I understand it's necessary for shaft removal, but why to check for/relocate a misplaced circlip? Breaking between the mid-connect and tranny will expose the aft end, removing the shift plate will expose the top, removing the transfer case expose the bottom.

But I don't know where "snap ring 6" is located in relation to any of those three openings.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

Thanks Greg and Chip. Chip, how about Greg's idea? As always, I'm in over my head, but have no choice other than NOT fix the problem.

 

[lakespirit]

I was able to determine the snap ring #6 as Chip described, is the offending item. This was accomplished simply by removing the shuttle shift cover. Any idea the internal diameter of the snap ring? If I work at it, I may even be able to slip that sucker on without dismembering the thing?? Wish me luck.

Thanks

 

[greg_g]

Looks like 25mm

//greg//

 

[bluechip]

If you can, you are better than my guys (its pretty far down there) but definately worth a try! is the bearing still intact under that gear? if so it will be fixed if you replace the snap ring. On the one we had, the missing snap ring allowed the bearing to slip out (caged needle bearing) and the gear and shaft were ruined, necessitating the total dissassembly. (I think that shaft does come out fht bellhousing side if I remember correctly. We benched the complete housing, but that does not mean it is necessary. My experience is that short cuts usually end up in back tracking and going the original route anyway, but others have better luck. Wishing you the best of it (luck)! I can measure the shaft on monday to determine snap ring size.

 

[lakespirit]

I must be living right. I was able to slide the roller bearing into the idler gear and push the snap ring back in place and all is working correctly. I used two long screw drivers to guide everything into place.Total time for the job was about 30 minutes!!! Replaced the shuttle shift cover, and away she went.

A wise person once told me that sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!

Thanks for all your help!

 

[BTDT]

Man, that's great that you fixed it without tearing everything apart.

 

[3RRL]

I must be living right. I was able to slide the roller bearing into the idler gear and push the snap ring back in place and all is working correctly. I used two long screw drivers to guide everything into place.Total time for the job was about 30 minutes!!! Replaced the shuttle shift cover, and away she went.

A wise person once told me that sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!

Thanks for all your help!

Yeah, I agree that is great you saved all that work. You are living right to have that happen.

 

[lakespirit]

Yep! Thanks again Chip. After reading your post a few times I realized I was in the wrong spot originally.