Kioti CK30/35 or CK3510 decision/price check

[gathumper]

Good afternoon!

New member, but have been reading here of and on for years. I've had my Long 460 for 18 years and it's probable going to be retired and replaced by a new compact diesel with FEL. Currently the Long is out of service and I don't want to put money into a 40-something year old worn out tractor, and I really could use a FEL!

Thanks to all who are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience!

I'm shopping around and have a Kioti dealer about 2 miles from the house. They are also an LS dealer so considering and comparing them, too.

I'm looking at 30-35 hp and trying to stay below 20k. My primary usage until now has been bush hogging, maintaining my driveway, and stacking and feeding 4x4 round bales. With the new tractor I may get a tiller and a grapple later. Will be glad to retire/replace the 3 point mounted scissor spear and hay forks with a set of forks on the FEL.

My dealer has a CK30 in both gear and HST and a CK35 gear available in addition to the newer CK3510.

So other than price, is there a clear reason to choose one over the other? Here are differences I've noted. Let me know if I've missed something important.

power - 30 vs 35 hp - more is always better
transmission - gear vs hydro - no experience myself, proponents on both sides
hst - one pedal vs two pedals
tier 3 vs tier 4 - not sure if this is a big deal or not
different loaders (KL130 vs KL4010) - looks like the 4010 has significantly more capacity

In the LS line I was looking at an XG3037.

I would appreciate any thought on the tractors mentioned above as well as any alternatives to consider.

 

[747driver]

Welcome and you have come to the right site for opinions !

I have a 2013 CK27 HST with FEL. Its a tier 3 which i was looking for. Also a 4 ft woods brush hog and KK 5 ft box blade which the tractor handles fine. You do lose some hp on the pto with a HST. I have a 28 hp engine but the pto is rated at 24 hp.

I prefer the HST as i do alot of loader work and we live in a national forest which makes maneuvering easy. If you are going to do ground engaging work i would say go with the gear but i think you would be better off with the HST.

I like my one rocker pedal for the HST. Very easy to get use to, on long runs i put the cruise control on !

I wanted to stay away from the new Tier 4 final engines as i didn't want the added emissions equipment. Mine is a Tier 3. If the CK30 HST will lift your round bales ok i would lean on going with that model. But you might want to step up to the CK35 with a stronger loader.

Is the FEL on these models have the SSQA attachment ? Meaning you can just take the bucket off and attach other implements like a grapple,pallet forks etc to just the loader ?

I like my Kioti and just had some work done on it and Kioti covered it under the warranty with no hassles !!

Good luck with your search...

 

[ahueter]

Not sure this will help but I just purchased the CK3510hst. I personally prefer the 2 pedal hst and definitely liked the significant increase in the fel capacity. I was looking at the CK2610 but stepped up to the 3510 for just a few more bucks. I wanted more PTO HP for a larger 3pt finish mower, 72", and more fel capacity for round bales if I end up going there. 4 tier will be a bit quieter and I suppose better emissions, although that wasn't a deciding factor for me. As a beginner, I took advice from many on here to go a little bigger than I needed as many many experienced tractor owners recommended that. I will own this thing a long time so I bought what I wanted and didn't penny pinch.

 

[gathumper]

Thanks for your replies!

I think both the CK30 and the CK35 have the same KL130 loader and they both have the same hyd pump and weigh about 3100 lbs so FEL capacity should be the same. The extra 5 HP in the CK35 would help a little with the bush hog and driveway maintenance.

I'm going to go and try them both out this week in the yard at the dealer and see how I like the gear vs hydro and the single vs two pedals on the HST. The dealer has a round bale we can play with so I'll get a good feel for how they will handle it.

They both have the quick attach and the tier three have the extensions on the three point standard. I think that's an option on the 3510.

I'd kinda like to stay with the tier 3, but the tier 4 loader has 1835 lbs loader capacity and 98" max height vs 1155 lbs and 92" on the tier 3.

I still want to get another look at the LS XG3037 and compare the specs on it to the Kioti. Dealer said it had better specs across the board and a separate hyd pump for the loader. He said that's better, but I guess it depends on pump capacity.


Thanks Again!

 

[DK35vince]

I still want to get another look at the LS XG3037 and compare the specs on it to the Kioti. Dealer said it had better specs across the board and a separate hyd pump for the loader. He said that's better, but I guess it depends on pump capacity.

I think most modern CUTS with power steering have the dual pump.
1 section supply's the power steering the other section for the loader, rear remotes, Etc.

 

[gathumper]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm looking at the specs on the LS XG3037 onine now and they list the implement pump (8.2 gpm), steering pump (4.2 gear and 5.2 hst) and total flow (gear 12.4 and hst 13.4) on the spec sheet, but to ME it's unclear if it's really two separate pumps as I was told by the LS dealer or a dual pump with the specs provided for each output?

For comparison:

Kioti CK27-35 are listed as 12.7 gpm.

Kioti CK2610, 3010 and 4010 are 11.7 gpm.


Looking at the PTO HP and loader specs, the LS XG3037 edges out the CK3510.

I hate that the loader specs on the tier 3 CK35 are so low. It makes the CK2610 look interesting with what appears to be a detuned tier 3 CK35 engine (based on the 100.5 CI displacement). PTO HP for the 2610H is 21.5 and compares well to the CK30 HST that's rated at 22.

None of which compares to the 27.6 of the CK35 gear. But I've got to try out the gear and HST nest week and do more research to see which I prefer.

Thanks Again!

 

[ahueter]

Good luck on your purchase! I never knew there was so much to consider when I started shopping but it was a good educational experience for me. The specs and how you feel operating on the tractor are important so obviously you're doing it right. Dealership distance and the dynamic and relationship you have with them is important too. Post pics when you make your purchase. I will be taking possession of my 3510 tmrw!

 

[N2DFire]

I'd kinda like to stay with the tier 3, but the tier 4 loader has 1835 lbs loader capacity and 98" max height vs 1155 lbs and 92" on the tier 3.

Remember those capacities are measured AT the pivot pin. The farther your load gets out from the pin, the less capacity you have (that's why the old curl & lift trick works - because your curling the load back closer to / over the pivot pins).

The next standard measurement point for comparison (if you can find it) is at 24" out from the pins. It is a general rule of thumb that you are reduced to 70% at 24" inches out.

That translates the KL130's 1,155 lbs to 808 lbs at 24" and the KL4010 goes from 1,835 lbs to 1,284 lbs.

We made the mistake of not considering moving round bales when we bought our CK (if we had we might have gone to a DK40) but honestly all the big farms around us roll 5' W X 6' H so unless we got them to do something special for us, we wouldn't be moving them on the FEL with a DK either. Beside we might have a need to move at most a dozen bales a year and zero need to stack them so if it's too much for the FEL (forks or grapple) then a 3pt spear will do for us.

If you are 100% staying w/ the 4x4's the CK35 should do ok (I wouldn't toss that 3pt mover just in case) but as much as I love our CK35 to death I think you'll be happier in the long run with the 3510 & the extra loader capacity.


As for the HST vs Gear - I grew up with noting but gear and so did Dad - it was what we knew so it's what we got. Hindsight - HST might have been nicer for all the loader related tasks but again - if you're already good w/ gears & a clutch - you'll be fine.

Good luck which ever you pick.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you are primarily mowing, I'd say all of the 30 and 35 hp CK units will easily run a six foot mower of any type. Not a huge difference. I'm a fan of HST for mowing and loader work. I've used the single and dual pedal HST and prefer the dual pedal as I don't like my foot trapped in one position.

The real difference between the tractors under discussion is the loader capacity. I had a CK20 with 1070lb lift and it was fine for general duty. I did a lot of land clearing however and when I changed to a DK40se with the KL401 loader and 2760lb lift I realized how important loader strength is to brush clearing and stump removal. Many times more efficient.

1800 lbs of lift would push me towards the CK3510 unless I really was just mowing and doing general chores.

 

[gathumper]

Thanks for all the replies! They have definitely helped me in making a decision (almost!)

I've looked at the LS tractors at two different dealers now and stopped by the other orange tractor dealer on the way home today and looked at/priced an L3301. $2k more for the L3301 and there are several things I like better on the Kioti. Loader capacity on the L3301 is equivalent to the CK35 (about 600 lbs less than the 3510). Overall my gut is telling me the Kioti is still my choice.

At this point I'm decided on the CK3510, just need to decide on the gear vs the hydro and then I should have one here in a day or two. I'm a little sad to give up on the CK35, but I think the loader capacity is a deal breaker. No shuttle on the 3510 gear and no cruise on the hydro. I drove the hydro around the sales lot a bit this afternoon and it's a bit strange to me having never driven one before.

The dealer here orders their 3510s with the "optional" telescopic lower links, rear light and dual remotes and is also including a floor mat, water & anti freeze in the rear tires and delivery.

Price check: Right now we're at about $18.5k (plus tax) on the hydro with all rebates and the extra $500 included.

I'd probably add the Cruise Control if I end up with the Hydro. Not sure what the "Link Pedal" does or if I need it?

Thanks everyone!

 

[IslandTractor]

I have cruise control on my DK40se and rarely use it. I suppose if I were mowing many acres in a perfect rectangle without obstructions etc it might be useful but the kind of mowing I do requires changes in speed and direction so often that cruise control just doesn't make any difference.

I like the package that your dealer orders. Telescopic links are helpful. dual remotes totally a plus. anti freeze in rear tires is cheapest safe way to add ballast. Rear light I have but don't use much because I don't use my tractor in the winter. rear lights critical if snowblowing etc.

 

[bh10]

Good afternoon!

New member, but have been reading here of and on for years. I've had my Long 460 for 18 years and it's probable going to be retired and replaced by a new compact diesel with FEL. Currently the Long is out of service and I don't want to put money into a 40-something year old worn out tractor, and I really could use a FEL!

Thanks to all who are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience!

I'm shopping around and have a Kioti dealer about 2 miles from the house. They are also an LS dealer so considering and comparing them, too.

I'm looking at 30-35 hp and trying to stay below 20k. My primary usage until now has been bush hogging, maintaining my driveway, and stacking and feeding 4x4 round bales. With the new tractor I may get a tiller and a grapple later. Will be glad to retire/replace the 3 point mounted scissor spear and hay forks with a set of forks on the FEL.

My dealer has a CK30 in both gear and HST and a CK35 gear available in addition to the newer CK3510.

So other than price, is there a clear reason to choose one over the other? Here are differences I've noted. Let me know if I've missed something important.

power - 30 vs 35 hp - more is always better
transmission - gear vs hydro - no experience myself, proponents on both sides
hst - one pedal vs two pedals
tier 3 vs tier 4 - not sure if this is a big deal or not
different loaders (KL130 vs KL4010) - looks like the 4010 has significantly more capacity

In the LS line I was looking at an XG3037.

I would appreciate any thought on the tractors mentioned above as well as any alternatives to consider.

Being I just bought a Kioti, I shop three dealers in our area, one being the one 2 miles from you (Piedmont) and were considerably higher than others. I looked at Piedmont in Gainesville in LS and they were priced decently. There's a dealer in Westminster, right on the other side of Tocca that was much cheaper and has been around a long time.

As for Tractors, if you're using the FEL loader a lot, I definitely go with the newer tractor. Even if you dont need the added capacity, the added lift height is nice.

 

[gathumper]

Thanks for the reply!

I was thinking about how I run the old tractor when bush hogging. I engage the PTO and put it in second gear high range and let out the clutch then I'll run for as much as an hour or two without touching the clutch. I can do this several times in a day and then I'll do some odd edges and under trees and the tree line at the edge of the field. Works great with the gear version. With the HST and no cruise I'm assuming I'll have my foot on the fwd pedal the entire time and might like the freedom to move my leg/foot around with the cruise control. However the edges, under trees and tree line would be advantage HST since I'm often backing and pulling up and over and backing again. This is where it would probably be nice to have a mower mounted up front since I get tired of twisting and looking backward.

Also found the "Link Pedal" info and it looks interesting too...

On hydrostat tractors, it allows the operator to set the manual throttle at a lower level, then when pressing a hydrostatic flow pedal, the linked pedal function will run the engine throttle up as the hydrostat load on the engine increases the rpm of the engine also increases. As the operator releases the pedal and it returns to neutral, the rpm of the engine drops again to the preset level set by the manual throttle control lever.

 

[gathumper]

Being I just bought a Kioti, I shop three dealers in our area, one being the one 2 miles from you (Piedmont) and were considerably higher than others. I looked at Piedmont in Gainesville in LS and they were priced decently. There's a dealer in Westminster, right on the other side of Tocca that was much cheaper and has been around a long time.

As for Tractors, if you're using the FEL loader a lot, I definitely go with the newer tractor. Even if you dont need the added capacity, the added lift height is nice.

I talked to the dealer in Westminster as well as a couple in NC and all were within a few hundred dollars. The dealer in Westminster was $100 higher but I didn't think about asking them about any optional equipment that was or was not included. I'll check back with them tomorrow. Best price was at the dealer in NC closest to Daedong USA, but only by $200. Maybe tighter margins on the smaller machines? Or I'm just getting a good deal!

 

[gathumper]

Quick Update... No new tractor in the barn yet, I want to be sure I make a good decision.

Went to the Kioti dealer in Westminster and he was VERY nice and knowledgeable. Recommended that I move up to a larger frame size to better handle the round bales and I understand, but this is a relatively small part of my tractor use. I'm not handling hay daily and only stacking hay in the barn about twice a year and then taking a bale or two out weekly in the winter. I know the larger tractor would probably handle driveway maintenance and bush hogging better as well, but the smaller tractor might be better in the woods and cost me a few (3-6) thousand less. It's not all about the money, I'll buy what I need to do the job and will increase my budget to $20-$25 if necessary (although under $20k would be great)

He recommended a McCormick X1.35 or 45 and the price was pretty reasonable. It's a larger frame size and weighs in at a little over 4000 lbs. Fit and finish was nice and the larger operator's platform was nice.

He also said the price my dealer was quoting on the Kioti was a great price and if I decided on the Kioti I should buy from my dealer. as he was not making much money on it. Great news if I end up with the Kioti!

In researching McCormick I found that it was built by Kukje in Korea and very similar to their Branson brand. My dad had told me about a small Branson dealer in my old home town an hour away and I went there the next day to check out the Branson. I looked at a 3120R and a 3520R and they were also a nice looking machine with good features. I really like the Branson, but due to the dealer being an hour away and a "one-man" dealer who has no full-time service department I am uncomfortable choosing it. There is a full service Branson dealer a few hours away in Rome GA (where the Branson HQ is located) but they priced the same tractors about $2500 more. It costs money to operate a full service dealership!

Next I went to a local Kubota dealership about 30 minutes away and priced a L3301. They wanted $20,500 for it. Loader capacity was way lower than the others and I didn't like the loader controls out on the loader. I saw that they advertise a package deal for $22.5 for the L3301 with a mower, box blade and trailer, so I might be able to get a better price if I wanted the Kubota. (may not be HST?)

My neighbor recommended that I price a Massey Ferguson and a John Deere. I hadn't even considered them, but I went to the local Massey Ferguson dealer who's been around here forever. He showed me a 1739E (Economy line) for about $17.5k but it didn't have the telescoping lift arms and the loader controls were on the loader. Then he showed me a 1736 in the "premium line" and it had everything the way I want it but cost $22.5. He did offer to take my old tractor in on trade, so that's a big plus and makes the net price about $21k.

Called the John Deere dealer and didn't like their "economy" line at $20.5k and the comparable "premium" tractor would be around $25k. I'll probably go take a look just to be sure, but that's a lot of extra $$$.

The Massey 1736 was a larger frame size and a nice looking tractor, but I don't know if it's worth the extra $3k over the Kioti. However, when I was reading up on it I came across an "equine program" that could get me a better price on it since we raise horses. I should hear from them tomorrow.

BTW, I'm still on the fence about the gear vs Hydro! SMH twice! I've gone back and forth a couple of times and had pretty much decided to get the hst on the Kioti. Was thinking about paying the difference to get the CK4010 over the 3510, but not sure yet. That would make my Kioti price for the HST $18.9 or $19.4 depending on the HP and includes the telescoping arms, floor mat and work light, but he doesn't have the remote hydraulics on the HSTs.

One thing I liked on the Massey was the 12x12 gear with Hydro Shuttle. Choose a gear and go then use the Power Shuttle without clutching. This seems like it might be a good setup. Anyone with experience with this type setup vs gear and hydro options?

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[kbsd]

If you're looking for a slightly larger tractor it might be worthwhile investigating the Kioti DK10 series, although no HST in the DK10's. They weigh about 650lbs more than the ck10's ( base machine without loader) and have a lift capacity of about 800 lbs +- more lift capacity. The hyro shuttle, imo, is kind of the happy medium between the straight gear and HST, but to each their own.

 

[ustmd]

I know I m late to your discussion, but I have the CK27HST (2009).

We have 30 acres (25 of which are managed actively) with horses. Our primary use is bush hogging and road maintenance (0.75 mile of unpaved road). I run a 6 ft bush hog and a 6 ft dual beveled box blade for road work with no issues.
Aside from moving the round bales, I think either the 30 or 35 would meet your needs.

In terms of HST vs petal, I went with HSt because of ease of use. My wife and FiL both drive the tractor and that was one less thing to worry about for them.

 

[tman1020]

I had a shuttle shift transmission once. You still had to clutch on this particular one I had. I did not care much for it. It seems it would never quite synchronize perfectly and most times had a slight grind from forward to reverse. The main thing I don't like about most gear tractors besides the obvious things is that when you're running something on your PTO and you need to change gears or directions is that you lose Power to your PTO when you clutch.
So maybe with this new system you're speaking of this will not be an issue. But I would definitely be finding out first before I bought it.

 

[DK35vince]

The main thing I don't like about most gear tractors besides the obvious things is that when you're running something on your PTO and you need to change gears or directions is that you lose Power to your PTO when you clutch.

Most modern gear tractors have a 2 stage clutch or Independent PTO so the PTO maintains power when you clutch.
Some of the economy models have transmission driven PTO's that you loose power to the PTO when clutching

 

[tman1020]

Most modern gear tractors have a 2 stage clutch or Independent PTO so the PTO maintains power when you clutch. Some of the economy models have transmission driven PTO's that you loose power to the PTO when clutching

That would definitely make a difference. I wasn't so fortunate.