Kioti CK30HST loses hydraulic power

[MichiganIron]

The new pump is installed. It works great. With the tractor hot (or cold) it will raise the front end off the ground and roll the bucket down lifting the tractor at idle. It will lift my 72 inch grader box to full height with the three point hitch at idle. Engine oil and filter changed. I reset the relief valve to 2600 psi. I will change the tractor fluid and filters after an hour or so.

Kioti had the pump at my door in two days from the time I placed the order. Best service I ever got from them.

Robin asked where the bolts I found finger tight are located. I believe the new pump is a Joy Yang pump. The Failed pump was a Casappa. In the photo below on the left end of the joyang pump is a black socket head cap screw. there are four of them on the the old and new pump equally space on the back plate. The only difference in the fasteners between the pump brands is the Casappa uses bolts instead of socket head cap screws.
There is a thread on here about these screws being loose because the threads pull out of the aluminum pump parts so be careful tightening them on an old pump.

If anyone has to do this job the only pointers are. You have to disconnect all the pipes (suction and pressure) to remove the pump. You cant assemble lines to the pump prior to installation. The large diameter suction pipe does have to be placed behind the pump against the engine before you put the pump in place. The pump to engine bolts have to be installed prior to installing the suction and feed lines. Dont ask how I found this out.

Thanks everyone for all the information and help. I really appreciate folks taking the time to read about my problem and being willing to help!!

We would recommend you reset the Relief Pressure to 2450psi @ 2400rpm.

Hope this helps

 

[jmk121]

Big expense of new pump but glad you got it back to working. Do you think you could have replaced the gasket/o rings on the old pump or was there issues with the metal parts?

The pump is most likely repairable if I can find a seal kit. Minor wear on the metal parts I think I can clean up the scoring on the sides of the gears. There are some threads on here about availability of seal kits and my dealer did not have a part number for one. I need to check the female threads in the housing to see if they need a helicoil. I am not throwing the old one out just yet I may rebuild it and keep it for a spare.

 

[jmk121]

We would recommend you reset the Relief Pressure to 2450psi @ 2400rpm.

Hope this helps

Will do, Thanks!

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I am not sure what is advised for your machine, after my experience with failed Kioti hydraulic pumps I erred on the side of excessive and fully flush all the fluid and changed both filters. The last pump failure I actually changed the fluid & filters twice, the second time after @an hour of operation. The CK20 holds @6gals of Shell SPIRAX S4 TXM which I get directly from ppc lubricants. On the CK20 there is a large center drain plug with a big magnet and two smaller outboard plugs to drain the rest. Both the pump failures I dealt with (yes I am on the 4th hydraulic pump) were more catastrophic than yours. The gear shafts actually ate through the bearing sleeves and began to destroy the pump case. I’ll try to post some pics. The 1st pump done by the dealer I never saw (civilians are too dumb to understand mechanical things) I was told the cam broke and I was running on 2 cylinders, there was a lot of smoke, Kioti paid for a new cam, hydraulic pump, misc parts and I was billed the labor. Some notes on 1st failure: 1. It happened when I was running scraper blade with the FEL off the tractor so I detached the blade and drove on trailer and dropped at the Kioti dealer to be diagnosed. 2. When I called after 5 days I was told the tractor was split in half, the pump was shot and the cam was broken. 3. After 2 weeks I called again and was informed the tractor was done and the bill was $XXXX.XX, when I started to get hot I was then told I only owed @50% as Kioti paid for all the parts since I was less than a year out of warranty. 4. I reviewed the bill and asked who paid for the 5 gals of fluid and filter & was told fluid was fine & reused never answered about filters. I asked what would have caused and never got an answer.

2nd dealer installed pump failed while clearing snow with backblade and FEL in @ 125 hrs & I replaced, fully drained system, cleaned drain magnet, replaced all filters also noticed tiny leak in hydraulic oil cooler and put into service.

3rd pump failed while trenching with backhoe in less than 100 hrs, fully drained, replaced filters & cleaned magnet. Before putting back in service I had a pigtail made up to fit hydraulic ports with a pressure gauge to confirm correct operating pressure with Bob from Michigan Iron I also purchased a recirculation pig tail hose to connect the rear output ports together so it does not deadhead/labor when the selector lever is put in back position when rear ports not in use. I sourced the exact SPIRAX Hydraulic fluid specified by Kioti corporate and then put back in service for @ 1 hour hooked up FEL and backhoe and ran through all movements to fully circulate fluid then shut down and drained system, cleaned magnet changed filters and refilled.

Additional Information:
*All hydraulic pumps were OEM Kioti.
*I used a torque wrench where ever possible.
*Tractor leaks/uses little or no hydraulic fluid never able to add more than 1/2 pint even after failure.
*Hydraulic fluid never smelled or looked foamy or burnt. It does darken slightly after 100 hrs use. You can see the darkening on dipstick/rag only when emptied in bucket.
*I have asked about how to flush and even Bob from Michigan Iron & Equipment thought my 2nd fluid change might be a bit extreme. The theory seems to be that the magnet and filters should get it all. That said I was told when my Suburbans transmission failed @ 40,200 miles and GM covered it anyway that if the tech saw anything he didn’t like during the replacement they would also replace the radiator and all the cooler lines because contamination left from a unsuccessful flush could kill the new transmission, tech said radiator and lines clean…..200,000 miles later and I’m still driving.

I figure an extra change out is good insurance, my next flush this spring a sample goes to Blackstone for analysis. I send out a sample of every other oil change for all equipment/vehicle now too.
Hope some of this usefull.
Best of luck,
Mike

Mike, what year is your Kioti?

 

[brkdrvr]

Mike, what year is your Kioti?

According to Kioti serial number decoder its a 2006 ( the serial Number starts with F. This seems odd as i bought new in 2008). The 1st pump failed just out of kioti warranty.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

According to Kioti serial number decoder its a 2006 ( the serial Number starts with F. This seems odd as i bought new in 2008). The 1st pump failed just out of kioti warranty.

Thanks for the reply. Was this an isolated issue or widespread?

 

[brkdrvr]

Thanks for the reply. Was this an isolated issue or widespread?

I don’t know. I did find two other people with almost the same issue, one of 5hem almost exactly the same. They both were repaired and I believe they sold their Kiotis or traded up to a larger model. I also find it interesting how familiar people were with changing the hydraulic pump and that a pre made rear outlet (back hoe hydraulic hookups) bypass hose pig-tail are for sale specifically to prevent the problem that I had (that the dealer and Kioti corp. but said was a non issue). Why are bypass hoses for sale and why did my local hydraulic hose guy know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned it. I know I will never run tractor without bypass hose if back hoe is not hooked up. I will always wonder if $5,000.00 and @ a year of down time as well as at least 200 hours of my time on research and labor would have been saved by a $ 30.00 by pass hose. I know there is a least one dealer who gives every customer who buys or installs a back hoe or rear hydraulics a hose.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I also find it interesting how familiar people were with changing the hydraulic pump and that a pre made rear outlet (back hoe hydraulic hookups) bypass hose pig-tail are for sale specifically to prevent the problem that I had (that the dealer and Kioti corp. but said was a non issue). Why are bypass hoses for sale and why did my local hydraulic hose guy know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned it.

Yeah good point!

I know there is a least one dealer who gives every customer who buys or installs a back hoe or rear hydraulics a hose.

Who is the dealer if you don't mind me asking?

 

[brkdrvr]

I was reprimanded for mentioning the dealer who sold me my Kioti and no longer will specifically comment on Kioti dealer policy’s . I will say that I am amazed at the seemingly randomness of dealerships success or lack of it. When I purchased I tried to research and thought Kioti was a good product for the $$. The wisdom of the time was sn established dealership was probably good so I went with the local Kioti franchise (7 miles )which was an established family name dealer. I have since discovered the next closest at @ (40 miles ) would have been far better. I will say that Bob Piro of Michigan Iron and Equipment who is a Tractor By Net advertiser sells me most of my parts now, and sold me my bypass hose and been extremely helpful on advising repair procedures. That said I don’t believe Bob supplies bypass with purchase that is a dealer in a neighboring state I have used. I guess my issue with Kioti Corp. it’s dealers and equipment dealer/suppliers is the right /desire to repair and maintain yourself. I like to do my own work in my spare time. I don’t golf or like watching TV my hobby is building and fixing things. Many dealers consider repairs which they call “service” their private domain and many manufactures now try to make this their dealers protected high profit area. Most good dealers realize most customers do not have the time, aptitude or equipment/tools to do this and focus their “service” department on them. The good manufactures & dealers have good knowledgeable parts people who deal with people like me . As an example we have 4 VW turbo diesel Jetta Sportwagens that I maintain. I use a Maryland dealer who is 10 miles farther away then my “local” Delaware dealer. The Maryland dealers service has now earned thousands of $$$ of warranty work as well as their parts department getting all of my local OEM parts purchases.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I was reprimanded for mentioning the dealer who sold me my Kioti and no longer will specifically comment on Kioti dealer policy’s . I will say that I am amazed at the seemingly randomness of dealerships success or lack of it. When I purchased I tried to research and thought Kioti was a good product for the $$. The wisdom of the time was sn established dealership was probably good so I went with the local Kioti franchise (7 miles )which was an established family name dealer. I have since discovered the next closest at @ (40 miles ) would have been far better. I will say that Bob Piro of Michigan Iron and Equipment who is a Tractor By Net advertiser sells me most of my parts now, and sold me my bypass hose and been extremely helpful on advising repair procedures. That said I don’t believe Bob supplies bypass with purchase that is a dealer in a neighboring state I have used. I guess my issue with Kioti Corp. it’s dealers and equipment dealer/suppliers is the right /desire to repair and maintain yourself. I like to do my own work in my spare time. I don’t golf or like watching TV my hobby is building and fixing things. Many dealers consider repairs which they call “service” their private domain and many manufactures now try to make this their dealers protected high profit area. Most good dealers realize most customers do not have the time, aptitude or equipment/tools to do this and focus their “service” department on them. The good manufactures & dealers have good knowledgeable parts people who deal with people like me . As an example we have 4 VW turbo diesel Jetta Sportwagens that I maintain. I use a Maryland dealer who is 10 miles farther away then my “local” Delaware dealer. The Maryland dealers service has now earned thousands of $$$ of warranty work as well as their parts department getting all of my local OEM parts purchases.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. You are welcome and encouraged to join my thread over here: Kioti Warranty Concerns
I would be interested to hear your opinion/feedback in regards to the discussion that were having in light of your own personal experience with the brand.