Kioti ck3510 loader issue

[toukow]

Thanks, Stan, for the solution to this issue.

Am I looking at this wrong? I’m not a fanboy of any product- it works or it doesn’t, and my tractor has been great in general. I can understand when manufacturers have issues applying new technologies like emissions, for instance. But if I’m not mistaken, hydraulics on tractors have been around for a while, and there is nothing unique to the design requirements here.

Question: isn’t this a case of wanting to jack up your lift capability numbers to look better in the brochure; applying too large of lift cylinders for the pump’s capabilities?

What doesn’t support such a jaded view is that not everyone seems to have the issue per this thread. We all know if 10 out of 10,000 units have a problem, you’re going to hear from the 10 on any forum related to the product. I asked my dealer this question and he said ‘Could be, but we’re seeing a lot of this type of situation from manufacturers’. I thought ‘yeah, if one company does it, others will follow that approach as well’.

Am I just missing the design (or other) difficulties of the situation?

Thanks, Toukow

 

[deezler]

This is a good question. Does it relate to valve sizing in the joystick loader controls at all? Or did Kioti just want to have fast cycle times on the loader dump/curl functions?

I have to admit, it is nice how fast the bucket dumps when you are just doing some dirt, gravel or mulch shuffling, and want to go fast. But the floppy syndrome is extremely disconcerting. I have the valve ready to install, hopefully soon.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Without a doubt I am doing this. It drives me nuts. On the other hand, I discovered something pretty cool on the 3510 this morning. When mowing with my flail mower (first time with this tractor) I realized in PTO auto mode it will turn the PTO off when you raise the 3 pt hitch past a certain point. It turns out for me, that is very nice since I don't like dragging the roller in sharp turns. You can easily disable the feature as well. Thanks Stan.

That's exactly what Auto PTO is for. Works great..

 

[Midniteoyl]

This is a good question. Does it relate to valve sizing in the joystick loader controls at all? Or did Kioti just want to have fast cycle times on the loader dump/curl functions?

I have to admit, it is nice how fast the bucket dumps when you are just doing some dirt, gravel or mulch shuffling, and want to go fast. But the floppy syndrome is extremely disconcerting. I have the valve ready to install, hopefully soon.

You have the floppy problem on yours?

 

[deezler]

Oh yeah. If you put the joystick to full dump, it dumps in what seems like under 2 seconds, and then the bucket just swings back and forth. If you go grab it, you can push the piston/rod back up the dump cylinders some 3-4". If you go to the ground, and have resistance, it's pretty stiff, and you can back drag ok. But still a little bouncy.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Oh yeah. If you put the joystick to full dump, it dumps in what seems like under 2 seconds, and then the bucket just swings back and forth. If you go grab it, you can push the piston/rod back up the dump cylinders some 3-4". If you go to the ground, and have resistance, it's pretty stiff, and you can back drag ok. But still a little bouncy.

That sux..

 

[Stan B]

...
But if I’m not mistaken, hydraulics on tractors have been around for a while, and there is nothing unique to the design requirements here.

Question: isn’t this a case of wanting to jack up your lift capability numbers to look better in the brochure; applying too large of lift cylinders for the pump’s capabilities?
...

I think the core issue is tolerances in the loader valve. I'm basing that on the fact that the symptoms were far worse when I had something heavy on the pallet forks, and tried to "dump" it very slowly for precision, like when trying to raise a pallet while keeping it level. The valve probably opens the rod end of the cylinder to tank before applying pressure to the base end. In that scenario, air could get pulled through tolerances in the loader valve, and is probably exacerbated by the load "pulling" on the cylinders in the same direction. I suppose there are other areas where suction could pull air in, such as through the quick disconnects. After all, hydraulic systems, especially at the compact tractor price point, are designed to be fluid tight, not necessarily air tight.

Before the mod, I could clear the air out, and keep it out, by running at max rpm (so max pump flow) and only going to "full" dump or curl, like when moving dirt. All the air seemed to get in when feathering the valve. That's why resistance to fluid flow out of the rod end fixes the situation.

At least that's my theory, for what it's worth!

 

[34Willys]

I have the same issue with my 2610, but it's not a 'KIOTI' exclusive problem. Search 'floppy bucket' and most colors of tractor have it to some extent. I have the parts Stan listed, but haven't installed them yet. Mich Iron mentioned a flow restrictor, but you would then have the slow curl/dump. What I like about Stan's fix is you can dial in the bucket to back drag when that's the work called for, then dial out the restriction when you're digging and dumping. The fast dump is great, but comes with a 'small' price.
Patrick

 

[Stan B]

but it's not a 'KIOTI' exclusive problem

Correct. I believe I found the fix I used on a forum dedicated to tractors of the green variety.

ou can dial in the bucket to back drag when that's the work called for, then dial out the restriction when you're digging and dumping

I do this, especially when using the snow pusher. It's nice to be able to cycle the pusher through dump quickly to dislodge any stuck snow.

 

[deezler]

Stan, others, do you find it pretty easy to use the indicator lines on the valve (mine are colored bands) to quickly reset the valve? IE, it's not a pain to recalibrate the right valve setting?