Kioti Dk35 HSE won't start

[ritcheyvs]

Latest is that after using the tractor a few times by leaving off the left side panel and jumping the solenoid the tractor stopped starting by the terminal jumping. I pulled the starter and found nobody without a very long trip that could test my starter electrically. I ordered a new starter on Ebay for $74/fre shipping that fits many diesel tractors.
Replacing all three relays nor cleaning up frame ground made any difference. I called a dealer tech who's ~ 2 hours from me and closest one, he said he has few starting issues with these in my tractors age group and had no idea what to look at next.
If you have ideas, I'm all ears?

Hey Kid: What James (K0ua) said.

Use your head instead of your credit card. These mechanical-injected Kiotis are simple, electrically, (compared to newer ones with black boxes) and anyone should be able to diagnose electrical problems with a few tools, like a voltmeter, a schematic, and a helper. This is super-important with intermittent problems because a dealer must either replace all suspect parts or keep your machine until the problem repeats (could be months).

I assume your "won't start" problem means the starter doesn't crank. So I will suggest a bad battery cable (or connector) as a possible cause if jumping the starter won't make the starter spin. A bad cable is normally a rare problem but it has been common in some Kiotis. Measure the voltage at the starter when you try to crank the engine (both with the key and starter jumper). Try bypassing the cables (one at a time) with jumper cables. Turn on the headlights and see if they come on and dim or go out when you try to crank.

 

[k0ua]

Hey Kid: What James (K0ua) said.

Use your head instead of your credit card. These mechanical-injected Kiotis are simple, electrically, (compared to newer ones with black boxes) and anyone should be able to diagnose electrical problems with a few tools, like a voltmeter, a schematic, and a helper. This is super-important with intermittent problems because a dealer must either replace all suspect parts or keep your machine until the problem repeats (could be months).

I assume your "won't start" problem means the starter doesn't crank. So I will suggest a bad battery cable (or connector) as a possible cause if jumping the starter won't make the starter spin. A bad cable is normally a rare problem but it has been common in some Kiotis. Measure the voltage at the starter when you try to crank the engine (both with the key and starter jumper). Try bypassing the cables (one at a time) with jumper cables. Turn on the headlights and see if they come on and dim or go out when you try to crank.

Rgr that. I have worked in shops with tech's whose only tool was the "shotgun". Just start replacing parts until the problem goes away. Of course they never took any of the new parts out to find out if it was needed. Just charge for them all. They had never heard of scientific method and diagnostics. Some techs, and I might add many at dealerships use this method because they literally don't know any better.

 

[kantuckid]

Actually I did say that I had a Kioti shop manual and had measured the 3 small relays to find they showed no abnormalities. Shotgunning?, well perhaps I qualify? I did check out/troubleshoot the starter on the tractor before reaching for plastic CC, thank you.
The battery is new and HOT and the cables are very good.
Manual does show a pic of a timer relay box ~ 2" x 3" on firewall such as I replaced on my old DK40 some years back but I don't see one on this tractor but also shows in manuals diagram. Does my DK35SE have one? Michigan Iron parts fiche shows only the engine stop solenoid and a "Twin relay,motor" on left side of firewall, as two parts I've not looked at.
I'm no electrical genius but I am a retired pro mechanic/auto tech teacher(work history of Euro cars,aviation/helos and industry/ 8,000 hour apprenticeship plus over 50 yrs of wrenching my own motorcycles)
Seems to be open season for critics here? No, I am not thin skinned nor seeking to act like I know it all. I don't think we worked together... Roger that?

 

[grsthegreat]

What year is thetractor. I remember about 5-6 years ago my stop solenoid failed. Its attached to the injector rail. I manually removed it and opened the rail. Tractor fired right up. Mine is a 2010 model dk45.....


Correction. I reread yours and see its not even trying to turn over. Never mind

Without doing this tractor motor just spun, not even trying to start.

 

[k0ua]

Actually I did say that I had a Kioti shop manual and had measured the 3 small relays to find they showed no abnormalities. Shotgunning?, well perhaps I qualify? I did check out/troubleshoot the starter on the tractor before reaching for plastic CC, thank you.
The battery is new and HOT and the cables are very good.
Manual does show a pic of a timer relay box ~ 2" x 3" on firewall such as I replaced on my old DK40 some years back but I don't see one on this tractor but also shows in manuals diagram. Does my DK35SE have one? Michigan Iron parts fiche shows only the engine stop solenoid and a "Twin relay,motor" on left side of firewall, as two parts I've not looked at.
I'm no electrical genius but I am a retired pro mechanic/auto tech teacher(work history of Euro cars,aviation/helos and industry/ 8,000 hour apprenticeship plus over 50 yrs of wrenching my own motorcycles)
Seems to be open season for critics here? No, I am not thin skinned nor seeking to act like I know it all. I don't think we worked together... Roger that?

OK. lets start over. right now if you go out to the barn an attempt to start the tractor, by turning the key switch to the glow position and assuming the glow lamp goes out and then you turn the key to the start position, exactly what happens at that point? if the engine does not crank, what exactly do you hear?

 

[ritcheyvs]

Actually I did say that I had a Kioti shop manual and had measured the 3 small relays to find they showed no abnormalities. Shotgunning?, well perhaps I qualify? I did check out/troubleshoot the starter on the tractor before reaching for plastic CC, thank you.
The battery is new and HOT and the cables are very good.
Manual does show a pic of a timer relay box ~ 2" x 3" on firewall such as I replaced on my old DK40 some years back but I don't see one on this tractor but also shows in manuals diagram. Does my DK35SE have one? Michigan Iron parts fiche shows only the engine stop solenoid and a "Twin relay,motor" on left side of firewall, as two parts I've not looked at.
I'm no electrical genius but I am a retired pro mechanic/auto tech teacher(work history of Euro cars,aviation/helos and industry/ 8,000 hour apprenticeship plus over 50 yrs of wrenching my own motorcycles)
Seems to be open season for critics here? No, I am not thin skinned nor seeking to act like I know it all. I don't think we worked together... Roger that?

Not to correct a retired pro mechanic but this brute-force starter test depends ONLY on the battery, battery cables, and starter; nothing else matters.

 

[k0ua]

Not to correct a retired pro mechanic but this brute-force starter test depends ONLY on the battery, battery cables, and starter; nothing else matters.

That little white paper really boils it down to the essentials doesn't it?

 

[kantuckid]

OK, lets try this updated message(my computer has been kaput as was running, well sort of running on old,original Windows 7-got it back today and can now type the entire alphabet):
The tractor NOW! starts and runs just fine...:thumbsup:
I'm not out to prove anything here wrenching wise and not interested in defaming those many members here who go out of their way to help tractor owners. As previously stated I ran through the entire Kioti shop manual list of checks for a no start. Credit cards were involved in a new battery to replace ten yr old original Interstate battery, three new relays and a new starter, define that as you choose.
Here what changes were made to the tractor since it began to either start "sometimes" & then eventually failed to start at all:
Replaced ten year old battery (then started OK by jumping the solenoid but eventually/later stopped all together)
Cleaned ground to frame connection
Bought new relays inspite of fact they tested OK on bench
After installing the new Chinese ebay starter I put the original relays back into place.
At that point the tractor began starting normally and has been in use since then. The old original starter was the issue, not the relays, ground connection, etc.. back before issues, the battery had gotten a bit tired but would start the tractor OK if I kept it on the Battery Tender. it's possible the old battery had internal issues but showed just enough voltage to crank per above.
Thanks for suggestions made here. I do enjoy greasy talk at that. Mike

 

[k0ua]

So you are the 1 in a 100 where the "my tractor wont' start" cure was a new starter then? Now for S & G's put the old starter back in and then you will have run a double blind study.

 

[DK35vince]

So you are the 1 in a 100 where the "my tractor wont' start" cure was a new starter then?

2 in a 100.
I had to put a starter in mine last year. Wouldn't start.