Kioti DK40SE HST starting problem

Typhoon · Jan 22, 2017

Hi folks. I have recently encountered a starting problem with my DK40, and it has me stumped. I will try and explain what is happening, and also what I have ruled out thus far. I have hit a wall so to speak, so hopefully someone can give me some insight. Tractor ran great this summer, no problems. I had a small starting problem last spring where the engine wouldn't turn over at all, but after some quick troubleshooting, I replaced the ignition switch and all was well, no problem. Fast forward to this fall, one day I went to start the tractor, and normally, I let the plugs preheat, hit the ignition, and it fires right up. This time, it cranked for several seconds before finally starting. I thought it was strange, but didn't take it too seriously since it DID start and run fine. Couple days later, same thing. Had to crank it for several seconds before it finally started. Weird. Then for the next few weeks it started normally, cranked right up. I was hoping maybe a little bad fuel or something had worked it's way through and all was well again. I forgot about it. Then, just about 3 weeks ago, I jumped on the tractor to move it real quick, preheat the plugs, turned key, and it cranked..... but wouldn't start. I have an optima battery that is only a few months old, so crank speed is perfect. White smoke billowing out of exhaust, raw fuel, but wouldn't start. The one thing that was different this time, was that it was 20 degrees outside. This was the first time I had tried to start the tractor with a temp outside under 50 degrees. Ok so, I NEEDED to get the tractor out of the way. I grabbed my starting fluid, and left the key on for a couple minutes so that in case the glow plugs WERE working, they had timed out and cooled down before I gave it the shot of starting fluid (didn't want to throw a rod.. lol). One shot of fluid and the tractor cranked right up. So, this got me thinking that I have a glow plug problem. I ordered a replacement preheat relay, replaced it, and still have the same problem. Now, here is where it gets interesting. Yesterday with the new relay installed, I tried to start the tractor and it did the same thing..... it cranked forever, no start. I needed to move tractor, so I grabbed the starting fluid. Same process... made sure the glow plugs were cool, then gave it a shot. It sputtered like it was going to start, but never did. Gave it another shot, same thing. I cranked, and cranked, and cranked... kept giving it shots of fluid, it would sputter (burning just the fluid I assume) then nothing. Another thing to note: It was 50 degrees outside at this point. I was at a loss, didn't know what to do so I opened the hood, and jiggled the connector on the relay to the right of the preheat relay (there are 3 relays, the center one is the preheat relay, but I am not sure what the other 2 relays are). Tried it again, tractor started like a new one. This confused me.... which is why I am posting this. Note: There are 3 relays on the left side of my firewall... I know that the center one is the preheat relay.. but not sure what the other 2 are. I think one is a starter relay, and one is a fuel cutoff maybe. But I don't know which is which. I looked all over the internet and can't find a diagram that shows what they are. So just knowing this info will be a big help. Maybe it was just a fluke that it started... I don't know.. but if anyone has any advice on what I should do next, I would greatly appreciate it. I am far away from the nearest dealer, otherwise I would just run it in. I am hoping I can fix it myself. Maybe a preheat timer?? Thanks in advance for any help on this!

Bavarian · Jan 22, 2017

You may have more than one problem here. First it sounds like a preheat problem. There mightbe a high amp fuse blown somewhere. Do you have power on the glow plugs when the key is in preheat position?

Second sounds like fuel shut off.

Do you hear any relays clicking when you turn your key on?

Touch those questionable relays and have someone turn the key in preheat and on position. Whenever they click, you know what they are.

Good luck.

grsthegreat · Jan 22, 2017

On my dk tractor, the relays arnt in locations as shown in service manual. I had to trace the wires. The stop solonoid and glow plug relays are reversed.

PCo farm · Jan 22, 2017

This may be a dumb question about something you already checked, but: Are you getting reliable fuel flow?

Typhoon said:
Hi folks. I have recently encountered a starting problem with my DK40, and it has me stumped. I will try and explain what is happening, and also what I have ruled out thus far. I have hit a wall so to speak, so hopefully someone can give me some insight. Tractor ran great this summer, no problems. I had a small starting problem last spring where the engine wouldn't turn over at all, but after some quick troubleshooting, I replaced the ignition switch and all was well, no problem. Fast forward to this fall, one day I went to start the tractor, and normally, I let the plugs preheat, hit the ignition, and it fires right up. This time, it cranked for several seconds before finally starting. I thought it was strange, but didn't take it too seriously since it DID start and run fine. Couple days later, same thing. Had to crank it for several seconds before it finally started. Weird. Then for the next few weeks it started normally, cranked right up. I was hoping maybe a little bad fuel or something had worked it's way through and all was well again. I forgot about it. Then, just about 3 weeks ago, I jumped on the tractor to move it real quick, preheat the plugs, turned key, and it cranked..... but wouldn't start. I have an optima battery that is only a few months old, so crank speed is perfect. White smoke billowing out of exhaust, raw fuel, but wouldn't start. The one thing that was different this time, was that it was 20 degrees outside. This was the first time I had tried to start the tractor with a temp outside under 50 degrees. Ok so, I NEEDED to get the tractor out of the way. I grabbed my starting fluid, and left the key on for a couple minutes so that in case the glow plugs WERE working, they had timed out and cooled down before I gave it the shot of starting fluid (didn't want to throw a rod.. lol). One shot of fluid and the tractor cranked right up. So, this got me thinking that I have a glow plug problem. I ordered a replacement preheat relay, replaced it, and still have the same problem. Now, here is where it gets interesting. Yesterday with the new relay installed, I tried to start the tractor and it did the same thing..... it cranked forever, no start. I needed to move tractor, so I grabbed the starting fluid. Same process... made sure the glow plugs were cool, then gave it a shot. It sputtered like it was going to start, but never did. Gave it another shot, same thing. I cranked, and cranked, and cranked... kept giving it shots of fluid, it would sputter (burning just the fluid I assume) then nothing. Another thing to note: It was 50 degrees outside at this point. I was at a loss, didn't know what to do so I opened the hood, and jiggled the connector on the relay to the right of the preheat relay (there are 3 relays, the center one is the preheat relay, but I am not sure what the other 2 relays are). Tried it again, tractor started like a new one. This confused me.... which is why I am posting this. Note: There are 3 relays on the left side of my firewall... I know that the center one is the preheat relay.. but not sure what the other 2 are. I think one is a starter relay, and one is a fuel cutoff maybe. But I don't know which is which. I looked all over the internet and can't find a diagram that shows what they are. So just knowing this info will be a big help. Maybe it was just a fluke that it started... I don't know.. but if anyone has any advice on what I should do next, I would greatly appreciate it. I am far away from the nearest dealer, otherwise I would just run it in. I am hoping I can fix it myself. Maybe a preheat timer?? Thanks in advance for any help on this!

Looking4new · Jan 22, 2017

On my CK27, the starter relay is the outside one of your 3 relay bank. The center one is glow plug. You might try pulling the plug off the shutdown solonoid and see if you have power there. That plug has a squeeze type Jesus clip on it.

k0ua · Jan 22, 2017

All it would take is a meter on the glow plug bus to tell the tale. you either have voltage on the buss or you don't. Yes the center relay which is rated for 70 amps is the glow plug relay. Are all the connections clean and tight on this relay? Likely not if "jiggling" them equates to normal operation. Inspect and/or recrimp/replace these connections would be one way to possibly fix this. Is the relay coil being energized? It is energized from the display unit. Not only is there pre-heat cycle of 15 seconds there is also a 15 second post glow cycle after the engine has started. Again a quick measurement with your Volt Ohm Meter will tell you if the coil is being provided with voltage to allow it to pull up.

Here is a photo showing the 3 relays on the firewall. BUT keep in mind that 1 and 3 could be reveres, as many operators reverse them as a troubleshooting procedure for no crank situations or no fuel shutoff issues and may or may not put them back to factory original. If there truly is such a thing.

grsthegreat · Jan 22, 2017

dont believe the pictures in manual. i actually unplugged what was labeled preheat relay and the starter wouldnt work.

k0ua · Jan 22, 2017

grsthegreat said:
dont believe the pictures in manual. i actually unplugged what was labeled preheat relay and the starter wouldnt work.

I would see this as a larger problem, as the pre-heat relay's contacts are rated 70 amps and the other two, the starter relay and the fuel relay are both rated 50 amps. I would think the glow plugs would damage the smaller relay contacts over time.

grsthegreat · Jan 22, 2017

k0ua said:
I would see this as a larger problem, as the pre-heat relay's contacts are rated 70 amps and the other two, the starter relay and the fuel relay are both rated 50 amps. I would think the glow plugs would damage the smaller relay contacts over time.

i reciently replaced all 3 relays as a percaution when i was having a starting issue. The problem went away. Also replaced stop solonoid. Did not want issues during winter. Glad i did as weve had a hard winter..

Typhoon · Jan 23, 2017

Guys, thanks for taking the time to respond. Let me answer a couple questions that were asked. Yes I believe fuel is being delivered normally, for 2 reasons. First, when the engine is cranking, white smoke is billowing from the exhaust and there is the strong smell of raw fuel. Also, once the tractor does start, it runs like a new one. To answer another question, when I turn the ignition switch, there is a nice loud click (I assume this is the fuel relay), and when I turn the ignition back off, I hear the same exact click again (again I assume the relay). So it seems to me like the fuel stop relay is working as it should. Tonight, I went to start the tractor, and it cranked for a long time, longer than usual, but it finally fired up and ran great. Note: It was warmer than usual this evening at my place, especially for Jan. It was 60 degrees. All of this leads me to believe it is a preheat issue. Now as a reminder of what I have done so far, I did replace the CENTER relay (70A relay, which I assume is the glow plug relay) with a brand new one. Nothing has changed.... thus, my old relay was probably fine. Something is causing an intermittent problem with the glow plugs I think. Since I replaced the relay to no avail, which part would be the next suspect? Glow plug timer? Thanks again!