Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk

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   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #21  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Allen, After looking at your numbers and logic, I sure hope there is another CPA around!
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #22  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Yeah those numbers were screwed up alright. Wheres an accountant when you need one. I meant to say the Kioti probably wouldn't bring $9000. Obviously my point was lost in the Faux Paw.
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #23  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

I really would not want to give the impression that I'm a fart smeller for buying Kubota vs Kioti. I'm really only talking about perception - I know several people with Kubotas not counting the ones on this board. The only Kioti tractors I have seen I looked at 3 years ago used. There were two of them, and both sellers told me they were made by Kubota. It was only after some study I learned otherwise, but these were extremely good deals that I passed up. Probably half the price you'd pay for a similar Kubota.

I'm only trying to say whatever you pay extra for the Kubota you will probably get back in resale, even considering the time value of money.

Reality is that the Kubota might not be one bit better than the Kioti. Given the increased number of Kioti owners on this board I would give them more of a look next time, but the resale factor would be a biggie still.

Sorry for sounding critical of the Kioti. I really don't have any experience with its performance or reliability.
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #24  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Alan L. -

I don't want to seem to come across to harsh either. I just thought I'd point out some of the observations I've made while here on TBN. As to your message....

<font color=blue>...both sellers told me they were made by Kubota. </font color=blue>

That's funny & sad at the same time!

<font color=blue>...whatever you pay extra for the Kubota you will probably get back in resale...</font color=blue>

Understood.

<font color=blue>...Kubota might not be one bit better than the Kioti</font color=blue>

Perhaps - I really don't know myself. Kubota seems to have a really good reputation (from folks I've talked with and on this board) But, as you point out, a lot of folks on this board have Kiotis and they seem to be really happy too. I'd like to see some "real world" data on their repair/defect rate (along with all the other mfgs. too) It would be interesting to see.

<font color=blue>Sorry for sounding critical of the Kioti.</font color=blue>

Again, I didn't mean to "pop off" too much myself -- By your latest comments you come across as someone who is open-minded and willing to "hear the evidence". That's all I wanted for the Kioti folks. I have NO problem with whatever tractor someone decides to buy -- after all, that's their choice. I just have a lot more respect for someone who "reasons" their way through the purchase process (weighing +'s & -'s) instead of something goofy like "I Like Yellow - Therefore Yellow tractors are the best" (or whatever color).

I will admit though, even though I hate "t-sip" orange, it didn't influence my purchase decision to go with Mahindra over Kioti /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. (I wonder who might come out with a tractor painted Aggie Maroon /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif -- maybe something I should consider during my next tractor purchase!) /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #25  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>(I wonder who might come out with a tractor painted Aggie Maroon -- maybe something I should consider during my next tractor purchase!) </font color=blue>

Aren't the TYM's Maroon?? May be time to sell./w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
BTI
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #26  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>...Aren't the TYM's Maroon?? May be time to sell...</font color=blue>

His Mahindra 4110 [/i]is built by TYM...[/i]/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

...and they build fine machines... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

but his powerplant is Kioti-Daedong... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

18-35196-JDMFWDSigJFM.JPG
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Well, I asked my original question some time ago and it didn’t get much of a response. I only checked back recently and was surprised to see all the comments. When asking my original question, it was based on comparing the hydrostatic Kubota’s against the “old” (i.e., not DK series) Kioti’s. For example, comparing a B series against the 25 or 30 series Kioti.

Most of the comparisons above conveniently compare the “new” DK to the “old” L series, which is being phased out I think. I see nothing in the Kioti line that compares to the Kubota B series. With the Kioti’s, the tractor’s looked like they were designed 50 years ago. Admittedly, the new DK series is better but they still don’t have hydrostatic transmission’s, which is very handy for loader and mower work.

I looked at resale value, and while I didn’t apply a purely scientific method to the process, I was left with the impression that the Kubota’s retained their value much better than the Kioti’s, at least in my area. This may be in part due to the higher original sales price.

Finally, I looked at the dealer network. In my area, there are 2 Kioti dealers and both of them appear to be very unprofessional in comparison to the Kubota dealers I have visited. I will agree that some Kubota dealers are very arrogant because the product’s reputation sells itself. However, the Kioti dealers appear to be undercapitalized. I had the impression that anyone who could qualify for a few tractors on a floor plan could be a “dealer.”

All of these observations are just that….observations. I have not analyzed the situation in great detail. That’s why I asked the question in the first place. Frankly, I’m the kind of person who already suspects one is paying a significant premium for the Kubota “brand” that is not justified. I WANTED to find that I could get a Kioti for a significant discount. However, if one wants hydrostatic drive and a “professional” dealer network, in my area at least, I haven’t found these attributes with Kioti. Too bad.
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #28  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

A couple of comments...

<font color=blue>Most of the comparisons above conveniently compare the “new” DK to the “old” L series...</font color=blue>

Well, the "DK" series does constitute over 60% of Kioti's tractor lineup and the "L" series or "Grand L Ten" series compares most directly (comparable HP, lift capacity, etc.) So - I don't think there was any intentional subterfuge going on.

<font color=blue>Admittedly, the new DK series is better but they still don’t have hydrostatic transmission’s, which is very handy for loader and mower work.</font color=blue>

Absolutely - if HST is something you can't live without, then Kioti is definitely off your list of possibilities. Without getting into the "Ford vs. Chevy" debate, I'll just say that people value HST differently - you appear to be in the "HST is a must" crowd (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

<font color=blue>I was left with the impression that the Kubota’s retained their value much better than the Kioti’s, at least in my area.</font color=blue>

This issue depends on when you plan on getting rid of your tractor I suppose. (I still have an '89 truck as my 'daily driver' so I kindof look at resale differently than others) It wouldn't surprise me though if Kioti's start going for higher prices in the "resale" market in the future as they become more "well known."

<font color=blue>In my area, there are 2 Kioti dealers and both of them appear to be very unprofessional in comparison to the Kubota dealers I have visited.</font color=blue>

Unfortunately this sounds somewhat familiar. There are a lot of "good" Kioti dealers out there (I've met some) - but from what I've read here on TBN, there seems to have been some "fly by nighters" in the past as well. There's another thread (somewhere here on TBN) that discusses the "cleanup process" Kioti has undertaken to try and rectify this. Unfortunate that some "bad apples" spoil the bunch.

<font color=blue>However, if one wants hydrostatic drive and a “professional” dealer network, in my area at least, I haven’t found these attributes with Kioti. Too bad</font color=blue>

Yup. Until Kioti comes out with HST, I think a lot of people will dismiss them. Maybe the engineers (and marketing folks) are working on it - SURELY their market research says this is a "biggie" for a lot of people.

As far as the dealer network is concerned, hopefully Kioti's efforts will take care of this sooner than later. Like you said "too bad."
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #29  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

I've been noticing alot of posts about some Kioti dealers being "fly-by-nighters". If they have the DK series they should not be "F-B-Ners". In response to this there are very few dealers around me, only one to be specific, that when they got started wouldn't have been considered "F-B-Ners" These are John Deere, New Holland and Massey dealers all of which at one time or another people could have called them "F-B-Ners". I do understand where you are coming from, the dealers that "look" more professional may very well be but, don't sell short the guy who doesn't have umpteen mechanics and salesmen running around. He may just be the most motivated guy you've ever dealt with. The guy that knows the ONLY way he is going to make it is go the extra mile in customer service, to keep his customers happy so that word will get out and his dealership in a few years will no longer be considered "Fly-By-Night"!
BTI
 
   / Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk #30  
Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Yep, I agree with you there on dealers. Around here there are two Deere dealers. One is small,one salesman(owner),one wrench bender,one parts guy. The other is a bigger Mega dealer. Guess which one has the best price, customer service,attitude etc.... Yes the mega sized one does have more rolling stock sitting around,but.......you pay dearly for that privlege!!

The problem I'm starting to see in these bigger so-called professional looking bright and shiny large dealerships is:

They are run by businessmen not farmers!

They do not understand that when you need a part later than the regular hours of the dealership or on a weekend or holiday,you need it now not later!

The salesmen do not understand what they are trying to sell you,only what the brochure says!

These same salemen try and sell you what is on the lot whether or not it is what you want!

They also do not want you to order a tractor with what you really need!

The service people are technicians (remove & replace experts) not real mechanics!

It is also becoming increasingly hard to find a dealer that is not a multi dealer operation,so they have the prices pretty well monopolized!

Now I'm talking Ag-tractors here as usual,so the little tractors might be different to certain extent.
 
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