Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk

RanchMan · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Rat -

Ranchman, if its so easy, why not offer it?

Sounds like you want to hear my "guesses" I alluded to in my earlier post - well - OK...

I suspect that it has to do with consumer cost. Kioti (& other "non-big 3 brands") main marketing focus seems to be on price leadership for a given performance level.

Example: Before Toyota introduced the "Lexus" line and Nissan introduced the "Infiniti" line, they simply did not offer products to compete with Mercedes, BMW, & the like. Didn't mean that Toyota/Nissan made bad products, but that they simply chose to focus on a different market segment. As I said in an earlier post, I AGREE that they are eliminating a sizeable portion of the tractor buying public. I just don't know what their business plan is and why HST doesn't fit in to it.

Where does my opinion say anything about "poor quality". ..... Don't read between the lines

Hmmm - your statement that Kioti "...lacks the engineering to have HST" seemed pretty straight forward to me. My read was that you were saying Kioti engineers are not as good as engineers for other brands that put out HST - ergo if they have "poor" engineering, than it follows that their products would be poor as well. (i.e. I can't think of anything that is "poorly engineered" that is a "top notch" product).

Maybe that isn't the way you meant it, but I didn't think I made a "big leap" to this perspective based on your original statement.

It may not be rocket science, but plenty of companies have taken a stab at it and failed miserably. 

Can't argue with that - All I'm saying is that I strongly suspect that Kioti (or other "off" brands) could introduce HST as an option if they wanted to. I mean HST has been around a long enough time that any company should be able to introduce it. Sure, there would be a learning curve (as with anything) but it doesn't necessarily follow that Kioti HST would be unreliable just because it was new.

BTI · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Sure is! I think I'll go wax my gear drive KIOTI /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif and forgo the rest of the tit for tat thing. Are you coming with me RANCHMAN, I'll help ya wax your gear drive Mahindra. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
BTI

DarrenP · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

I think the main points to consider are quality and resale value. The Kioti line has not been available here long enough to answer the quality question. Considering autos, can the quality of Hyundai (Korea) be compared favorably to Toyota (Japan)? Resale value, from what I have seen, is poor. Do the Kiotis do the job they are designed to do? Yes. Are they the best choice, IMHO? No.

ByuBill · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Just an observation here,,,, while going back and reading all of the post in this thread I just thought that I would take a look and see what kind of tractor everyone owned. Marrt, that started the 'Kioti isn't worth the risk' debate owns a Ford 8n. All others that think that 'Kioti isn't worth the risk' own,/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif are we suprised, Kubotas. Maybe it all has to do with the color and not the mechanics. Kind of like when our wives get upset when another lady wears the same dress as she does to the party.
Really guys, we, Kioti owners don't mind at all if you have an orange tractor that doesn't say 'KIOTI' on it. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

JATO_RaT · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Ranchman, you are correct that I may have meant something different. My comments about engineering for Kioti if you reread my opinion did not say they do lack it, it was a guess as to why they may not offer it. Let me rephrase it. Either they don't have it developed to the point they want to release it, or simply don't yet realize how many compacts are being sold with it. My local Kubota, JD and NH dealers are all saying its the transmission of choice for folks today, I can't argue with that. As one who currently owns both transmissions, I can only offer folks who are deciding to purchase a tractor my opinion about how well I like it and why. There are certainly folks who will not consider it, thats fine, I won't waste my time responding to them if they have purely subjective attitudes. Many I have come to find out have never used it and simply don't like because its not what they have.

Unlike some, (a few on this forum and I don't mean you) I don't flag wave my brands simply because I have it, be it tractors, trucks, or what have you. To me is not only a waste of time, its childish and a sure sign of insecurity. Knowing nothing about Kioti other then whats reported here, I will not consider them good or bad, worthy or not simply because I don't own one, I'll wait until I have an objective thought. Same goes for all the others. I have tried and used NH, JD and Kubota compacts, all of which are very well represented in my area, all of which provide outstanding service and quite frankly immediate parts deployment. I have worked on the JD 5500, NH 2120 and Kubota L4850 to name a few and have never had a problem with parts for any of them. Doesn't mean the other brands would not either, I just don't know, so I just don't comment or pretend to know if they would. Power to all the other brands to make a better product, without competition, nothing gets better. Enough of this, I'm outta here, Rat...

RanchMan · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Rat -

you are correct that I may have meant something different

Thanks for the clarification.

Many I have come to find out have never used it and simply don't like because its not what they have. 

Unfortunately I agree /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif. I grew up with HST but own gear now (the price was a major factor for me in this area). They both have +'s and -'s -- no doubt.

To me (brand flag waving) is not only a waste of time, its childish and a sure sign of insecurity.

Yup. A little "good natured" "flag waving" seems OK to me, but what makes me mad is when "Brand Patriotism" degrades into "Brand Fascism." Just seems that there has been a lot of that lately on TBN. Maybe I'm over sensitized to that (not sure why) and perhaps I "See" it when it really wasn't there (i.e. black hellicopters anyone??? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif)

Power to all the other brands to make a better product, without competition, nothing gets better.

Right on!

 Enough of this, I'm outta here, Rat... 

WAIT! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Objective conversation is what we DO need!!! (at least that's the type I enjoy reading...)

RanchMan · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

BTI-

Do you include "washing services" as well??? If you're scrubbin', I'm comin'!!! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

A nice carnauba flavor, please.... /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

RanchMan · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

These points came up earlier in the thread. Reprinting some earlier replies I had made....

Regarding reliability...

Although I'd agree with that statement regarding long-term operations with the DK series (since they have only been out for a year or two), I think that overall that isn't a fair statement - after all, Kioti has been in the states for 17 years (and Daedong, who manufactures Kioti has been around for about 55 years). I'd say that there should be plenty of data out there - perhaps a few of the Kioti owners here on TBN could speak up regarding "real world" +'s & -'s.


Regarding resale...

This issue depends on when you plan on getting rid of your tractor I suppose. (I still have an '89 truck as my 'daily driver' so I kindof look at resale differently than others) It wouldn't surprise me though if Kioti's start going for higher prices in the "resale" market in the future as they become more "well known." 

Resale - can't argue that they are poor "resellers" or not - haven't priced them. It's just a belief that they will become "better retainers" of cash value on my part.

Are they the best choice, IMHO? No.

That's fine. Again, as long as someone can justify their decision based on other than "brand patriotism" or "chassis color", I can respect that. I just get irked when folks say "X stinks" based on non-research/non-data.

Please, again, don't take me wrong - I'm NOT saying Kioti is for everyone and NOT saying it has "no warts." As pointed out earlier in the thread, there are some features (i.e. HST) Kioti simply doesn't offer which, for some, is a "show stopper."

RanchMan · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

ByuBill-

I made the same "observation." /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Perhaps that's why I've felt inclined to "speak up" so much in this thread. Just seemed like unfair "ganging up" on Kioti - something I don't like to see happen to ANY brand. Hope you Kioti guys don't mind my verbose responses on this thread. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

My only fear is that although I never intended to "upset" other posters, I have @ times..../w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif I try to make my points with the minimum or sarcasm (although I'll admit some creeps in at times) and with lots of logic and/or evidence. Not sure it is always well received though. Of course, you can't please all of the people all of the time either... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

BTI · Apr 25, 2002

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

RanchMan, I'll tell ya what if you bring it over I'll wash it AND wax it. I'll even change the oil for ya!!
BTW I'm in OHIO. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
When can I expect you???
BTI