KiotiJohn

   / KiotiJohn #21  
As one of Junkman's neighbors (5-6 miles) I guess I'll have to drop over and see whats up. Larry only mentioned the garage. What about the hill and the boats, and the outdoor hoop shed adn the piles of outdoor stuff. I can't wait to see.

Andy
 
   / KiotiJohn #22  
CBB said:
The reason for departure was made clear by KJ. It was with regard to comments made. Some folks disagree without being disagreeable...that was KJ. Unfortunately, several members disagreed and were very disagreeable and that is why he gave a warning that he would leave and then he did leave when the disagreeable one continued with hocus pocus. I was very close to following suit but instead just stopped reading that post about front loaders on Kioti. If you go back and read about it, you will even know who the disagreeable folks were and then you will have the answer as to why KJ un bookmarked tractorbynet.
He was one of my favorites too and this site is significantly "less" for his leaving.

The above is how I understood his reasons for leaving as well. I would wager he still looks in. This site is a hard habit to break. It's an excellent resource even if some of us go off the deep end from time to time, myself definately included. John if your reading this, come'on back, we miss ya.;)

Tom K
 
   / KiotiJohn #23  
I have a slightly different take on KJ's departure. First, I should be clear that I wish he had not left as his departure definitely diminished the technical expertise available to the Kioti forum, I don't think anyone could disagree on that. And, he was clearly an ambassador/cheerleader of sorts for Kioti which ain't all a bad thing. As the long term members will recall, KJ had a unique relationship with Kioti which I think was the root of the problem. He had worked directly for Kioti revising the owner's manuals (a good thing) and as a consequence I'm sure he felt closer to corporate Kioti than most of the rest of us mere tractor owners. I suspect, that closeness to Kioti led him to fall into a self appointed role as defender of all things Kioti and that was a mistake.

KJ was not a shill or completely uncritical of Kioti but it sure seemed at times that you could predict that any critical remark about a Kioti would get an almost Pavlovian defensive response from him. I suppose that could be thought of as just simple brand loyalty but for someone who posted as much as he did, it meant he was getting into catfights constantly. The people he was squabbling with may have been wrong sometimes and right sometimes but KJ's reliable defensive posture often just ended up escalating small technical disagreements of opinion into battles royal. I'm not saying that he started all the squabbles at all but his diplomatic skills did not seem up to avoiding confrontation for confrontation's sake. Perhaps a thicker skin would have helped. Some of the TBN members whose posts seemed to irk him most are clearly guys who are not thin skinned, who like to argue and who, like KJ, know a lot about tractors and have their own opinions. I wondered sometimes if KJ just lacked experience and perspective in dealing with such characters. He sure took criticism of Kioti personally which in the end made it unpleasant for him to continue to participate. That said, I wish he would return to the forum.

That KJ's antagonists were not Kioti owners doesn't really matter so much to me. As this is clearly an open forum one should expect "outsiders" to post and sometimes they will be disagreeable. Life on forums is not truly refereed (despite the efforts of our dear moderators) so one has to deal with gratuitous potshots without overreacting. I think one can argue without getting personal and one can also walk away from an argument that does get personal perfectly honorably. Sometimes you just need to resist the urge to fire another salvo and just click on the next thread button. Speak softly and carry a big click. :)

Kioti gets a lot of attention from non owners because it is perceived as an upstart company and because Kioti owners say a lot of nice things about their machines. I'm sure Hyundai posts are attacked on car forums as well (at least before they started piling up the JD Powers awards). Kioti probably gets more attention on this forum than it deserves given relative numbers of owners. It is not a big three company and yet is apparently making inroads. (As an aside, I smiled recently when I saw that Kubota now compares their B2630 to JD, MF, Kioti and Mahindra in promotional literature. Last year they did not mention Kioti or Mahindra. Kubota would never mention the others in promotional literature if they did not see them as serious competition). Recall the old adage that "bad publicity is better than no publicity". Defenders of the Kioti faith should take that to heart.

Come back KJ, your R+R is over and we don't want to list you as AWOL.;)
 
   / KiotiJohn #25  
IslandTractor said:
That KJ's antagonists were not Kioti owners doesn't really matter so much to me. As this is clearly an open forum one should expect "outsiders" to post and sometimes they will be disagreeable. Life on forums is not truly refereed (despite the efforts of our dear moderators) so one has to deal with gratuitous potshots without overreacting. I think one can argue without getting personal and one can also walk away from an argument that does get personal perfectly honorably. Sometimes you just need to resist the urge to fire another salvo and just click on the next thread button. Speak softly and carry a big click. :)

Come back KJ, your R+R is over and we don't want to list you as AWOL.;)

IslandTractor
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. As you can tell by my number of posts, I don't usually post much and avoided most confrontations for the two years I belong to T B N .
What good is that stick if the "antagonists" know you won't use it. Why does the "Good Guy" have to move on. There comes a time when you shouldn't walk away.
I think KJ walked away from T B N because he was disgusted with the fact these "antagonists" were tolerated, for 7000+ posts, by most members, and that includes me.
I am currently answering "a member who is very disagreeable " (CBB, hope you don't mind, I borrowed your statement) on the Mahindra forum, he just said something to another member that blew my mind. Wonder if he's the same poster that got KJ disgusted ?
Well, enough said, as soon as my shoulder heals, I will probably OBSERVE again for another two years, or until my horse dumps me again ;)

"Come back KiotiJohn, your R+R is over and we don't want to list you as AWOL."

Buck
 
   / KiotiJohn #26  
IslandTractor said:
Kioti gets a lot of attention from non owners because it is perceived as an upstart company and because Kioti owners say a lot of nice things about their machines.
Well Ed, despite our friendship I will disagree again. John and I used to go around and around, and it all started in the the Kubota, New Holland and Deere forums where he used to come and say "Kioti is better and cheaper too . . ." Go back to his early posts and you will find that he was a frequent contributor in the major brand forums and he is probably most to blame for some of the major wars. There were times he and I got along, and times when he and I did not.
IslandTractor said:
but it sure seemed at times that you could predict that any critical remark about a Kioti would get an almost Pavlovian defensive response from him.
To this point I can agree with you. Even valid observations of objective criteria would cause him to defend the brand with a near zealot response.

I will give KJ a huge amount of credit for helping others, and for the product knoweldge he had about some specific machines. He did some wonderful things here to help people and that cannot be understated or brushed aside. His follow up to problems to help out other members was unparalleled and he deserves credit for those types of contributions he made which were very positive to not only Kioti but also to Tractor By Net.


UncleBuck01 said:
I am currently answering "a member who is very disagreeable "
Oh, and UncleBuck, for whatever it is worth, KJ posted at a higher frequency than I so it could be said that he had to be tolerated more than I.

As for your Mahindra comment, if you go back to read the entire Mahindra thread where you are attacking me, you will notice that you are defending a man that many others also criticized. And yes, I did respond rather harshly to him, but it is only because he is known for trolling and I don't much care what people think anymore. I'm too old to worry about it, but willing to poke back when poked.
 
   / KiotiJohn #27  
Study the picture very carefully and you will see a parking meter in the front. That is a great picture of a shop full of treasures with a great story behind every one of them.
 
   / KiotiJohn
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Raddad said:
Study the picture very carefully and you will see a parking meter in the front. That is a great picture of a shop full of treasures with a great story behind every one of them.


*LMAO* Am I the only one who has no clue what this means?
 
   / KiotiJohn #29  
Raddad said:
Study the picture very carefully and you will see a parking meter in the front. That is a great picture of a shop full of treasures with a great story behind every one of them.

There's a couple of Corvairs in there too...
There's a thread here a couple of years ago where Junkman took pictures to show the inside of his garage from different angles. I'd like to take a tour if I ever make it up that way! :)

EDIT: I found the thread with the pictures of Junkman's garage. Check out some of his stuff...
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/32375-little-subject-but-here-goes.html
 
   / KiotiJohn #30  
rback33 said:
*LMAO* Am I the only one who has no clue what this means?

Look at the picture of Junkman's garage in my first post in this thread. ;)
 

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