Buying Advice Kubota Grand L3540 HST+ or Kioti DK45SE HST

[k0ua]

Mike one other thing, about the dead trees you were going to "push down".. it is extremely dangerous to push down dead trees, because they break up high and drop on your head.. Lots of guys have their hoods dented and a few have their heads dented. Much safer to get several long chains, put together and tie on to the dead tree up as high as you can reach, and pull the tree down with the chain attached to your fixed drawbar below the rear axle of the tractor. Make sure the chain is quite a bit longer than the height of the tree.. I have pushed over plenty of nice green living smaller trees, but dead trees are widowmakers. Trust me on this.

James K0UA

 

[coobie]

Congratulations on your new tractor, welcome to the Pack!!
I just took delivery on a new DK40SE HST on Thursday. I can attest that just loaded rear tires are not enough ballast for that powerful loader as I lifted the rear wheels off the ground and not what I was trying to lift. Looks like my wife is winning the argument for putting a backhoe (1350lbs) on the tractor which will serve as ballast for me. Be aware that there is a good chance that the bucket level indicator sleeve will loosen up and the indicator will flop around and you will bend it up if you don't catch it in time. Mine came undone in the first hour of using it. A little Locktite on the threads will take care of this issue.

Added a 1000 lbs ballest box to the rear of my tractor and had the rear tires filled with rim guard.I can lift 2400 lbs with no problem with the front forks on.

 

[grm61]

Loading the rear tires simply doesn't allow you to get near rated maximum lift....because it can't. In this example Kioti says you have to put 1,047lbs on the 3pt to max the loader. Putting weight on the 3pt takes weight off the front axle, by using the rear axle as a fulcrum/pivot point. Making the pivot point heavier (loading the tires) does very little to take weight off the front axle. Think of a teeter-toter with the rear wheels being the pivot. If you have a fat kid on one seat, you need another fat kid on the other seat....no real way around it.

My loader is rated at 2,639lbs max lift at the pins, to full height. With pallet forks on, I was barely able to lift the 1,300lb (weighed) slab that became my counterweight. Add the slab, and forks, and it was probably 1,700lbs total load, give or take. The rear tires were extremely light, and came off the ground with sudden loader movements or sharp starts/stops of the tractor.

Everybody likes pics....1,300+ lbs after it was finished (added the legs, drawbar, top link etc).

I'll have to check it out for myself, I've got 1164bls of ballast in my rear tires and I have the hoe on it that I have not taken off yet, she's a hefty girl right now.

There are alot of folks out there that say they have loaded tires, but in reality there is hardly anything in them, I'm not saying that is your case.

Thats just been my experience the 30 years I spent in the field as a tire guy. Alot of folks just don't know that they got screwed when they paid to have their tires filled.

I won't know for sure until try it myself with the backhoe off, you may be right, but I'm a check it out for myself kind of guy.

This is off of Kiotis Brochure for the loader, It doesn't say the weight has to be on the three point.
It just says counter ballast 1048lbs.

Loader Specifications
Model KL401
Counter Ballast 1,048lbs (475kg)
A Maximum lift height to pivot pin 107.8 (2,738mm)
B Maximum lift height under level bucket 105.5 (2,680mm)
C Clearance with bucket dumped 79.9 (2,029mm)
D Reach at maximum lift height 16.1 (409mm)
E Maximum dump angle 73 ｰ
F Reach with bucket on ground 73.6 (1,869mm)
G Maximum rollback angle 30 ｰ
H Digging depth -6.7 (-170mm)
J Overall height in carry position 52.7 (1,339mm)
L Depth (Horizontal distance) 20.7 (526mm)
MHeight (Overall vertical height) 22.6 (574mm)
N Length (Horizontal distance) 25.9 (658mm)
Lift capacity to maximum height at pivot pin 2,761lbs (1,252kg)
Breakout force at pivot pin 3,727lbs (1,691kg)
Bucket rollback force at ground line 4,633lbs (2,101kg)
Relief valve setting (Loader control valve) 176 bar (2,556psi)
Rated flow (Tractor hyd. system) 10 gpm (38ℓ /min)
Attachment (Bucket size) 72 (1,829mm) (QA)
KIOTI Utility Tractor
Loader Model : KL401 Tractor Model : DK40SE/DK45SE/DK50SE
Front End Loader
The KIOTI KL401 front loaders are specifically designed for
the DKSE series tractors, providing efficient performance
with single lever joystick control. The KIOTI loader with
quick attach bucket is designed to be easily attached and
detached.
Items 1,500 / 2,000 / 2,600rpm
Raise boom 7.6 /5.7 / 4.5
Lower boom 4.9 / 4.8 /4.7
Dump bucket 2.2 /1.9 /1.5
Retract bucket 2.3 /2.2 /2.1
Loader model KL401
Specifications and design are subject to change without notice.

 

[k0ua]

The first thing I did when taking acceptance of my new Kioti, in which the dealer loaded the tires with Methanol mix was to run the tires valve stems 12 12:00 and see that a little liquid came out. Also it is very easy to see the level line of the fluid on a humid morning after a cool night. The sweat on the tires clearly shows you the level of fluid in the tire.

 

[GManBart]

This is off of Kiotis Brochure for the loader, It doesn't say the weight has to be on the three point.
It just says counter ballast 1048lbs.

The rear tires aren't loaded on my LS....no need yet (maybe next year for plowing). They are on my 8N, and I verified the level with a $15k hand-held thermal imager i use at work

Certainly, check it out all you want, but physics, and mechanics, aren't negotiable....weight in the tires does next to nothing to take weight off the front axle...it may cause a slight change in the percentages, based off total weight, but that won't lessen the actual load on the fronts.

The brochure you read is wrong. Look at Kioti's online loader page with specs. It says: "Ballast Box attached to 3-Point 1,047 lbs".

KL401 Front End Loader | Kioti Tractors

Edit to add: adding weight to the rear tires does make it somewhat harder to lift the rears off the ground, but that's making the pivot your front axle, which is not a good scenario. 1000lbs (roughly) off the 3pt both takes weight off the font axle, and makes it harder to lift the rear tires. It alo does much more to counteract the FEL than the same amount of weight in the tires, because it has leverage in the distance (arm) from the rear tires to the center of mass of the weight.

 

[k0ua]

Yes but loading the tires, allows you to pull your self up a severely steep hill with your grader blade on the rear pulling a big load of gravel.

James K0UA

 

[grm61]

The rear tires aren't loaded on my LS....no need yet (maybe next year for plowing). They are on my 8N, and I verified the level with a $15k hand-held thermal imager i use at work

Certainly, check it out all you want, but physics, and mechanics, aren't negotiable....weight in the tires does next to nothing to take weight off the front axle...it may cause a slight change in the percentages, based off total weight, but that won't lessen the actual load on the fronts.

The brochure you read is wrong. Look at Kioti's online loader page with specs. It says: "Ballast Box attached to 3-Point 1,047 lbs".

KL401 Front End Loader | Kioti Tractors

Edit to add: adding weight to the rear tires does make it somewhat harder to lift the rears off the ground, but that's making the pivot your front axle, which is not a good scenario. 1000lbs (roughly) off the 3pt both takes weight off the font axle, and makes it harder to lift the rear tires. It alo does much more to counteract the FEL than the same amount of weight in the tires, because it has leverage in the distance (arm) from the rear tires to the center of mass of the weight.

I'm glad you thunk that through for me
I understand that the weight is farther back, and what your saying makes sense, but I'll just have to wait and see for myself.:drink:

 

[TripleR]

Yes but loading the tires, allows you to pull your self up a severely steep hill with your grader blade on the rear pulling a big load of gravel.

James K0UA

Yep, that's why I cover my bases with loaded tires and ballast on 3PH as my 1100+ "ballast" is often dragging dirt and no longer acting as ballast.

 

[k0ua]

Yep, that's why I cover my bases with loaded tires and ballast on 3PH as my 1100+ "ballast" is often dragging dirt and no longer acting as ballast.

Exactly, a balanced approach is best, at least for the things I do.

 

[kiotiken]

Oh not in a hurry I've been researching for months its just that I finally got financing approval for both and they are just sitting there looking pretty. I'm ready to get some work done also and see what these things can really do. I have never even sit on a running tractor in my life but I used to be a heavy equipment operator in the military years ago and ran dozers and other heavy equipment. Anyway the tractor is on its way. They are delivering it in a few hours I went with the Kioti I really hope I made the right decision. The only thing that I see that the Kubota has over the Kioti was the HST+. I don't know if that's worth giving up the extra Horse Power, weight, and lift capacity, and 4 year warranty that Kioti offers. I hope I made the right decision. Its weighing on me pretty hard. It would have been the same if I had chosen the Kubota. I am gonna second guess until I get it and get some stuff done and get comfortable with it.

Nice, I think you made the right decision. When I decided to buy new, I was pretty set on Kubota and landed on Kioti for many of the same reasons. That wasn't a fair fight at all btw, you needed to be comparing the DK45 to the L4240, but I think you know what happens to price at that point. Post some pics.