Comparison KUBOTA L4701DT vs LS XR4150

[LiveDog]

Unless there are other factors, I'd always prefer a three-cylinder over a four-cylinder in a tractor -- they are a lot nicer to live with in terms of smoothness and vibration with or without a cab. But generally I look at the overall package and make a decision based on all the factors, not just the engine.

There are several threads within TBN and MUCH (old and NEW) info available on the InterNet dealing with 3 vs 4 cylinder (NA/turbo) diesel engines and their (r)evolution... Seems there is a LOT to (re)learn/consider... A LOT has changed... ALL very interesting/encouraging...

Also, here is some additional general 'engine' info/perspective from a renown gear-head/friend who designs/engineers/builds engines/components for several OEM's of race cars/m-cycles/Et al...

The N/A I-4 has a maximum specific output of .302 hp/in^3, where the turbocharged I-3 has a maximum specific output of .436 hp/in^3. One could argue that the I-3 has to work harder to make the extra power, but in the case of engines that are built by Kubota, Yanmar and several others, the turbocharged engines are not overstressed.

One could argue that the N/A I-4 should be easier to maintain and last longer, but again, the new engines are quite robust. (Most folks kill their turbochargers by blipping the throttle just before they shut-off the engine, causing the turbo to spool-up. With the engine shut off, oil no longer circulates through the engine or the turbo. The oil that remains in the super hot turbo can literally cook. (The phenomenon is called "coking"...) The coke particles can block oil passageways inside the turbo. The coke particles are also very hard, so if they do circulate through the turbo, they can damage the bearings. (Remember: turbo spin at crazy speeds. 150,000 rpm is typical...) Many marine, industrial and commercial diesels use pre- and post-lube systems. A separate, electrically-powered oil pump lubricates the engine prior to start-up and lubricates (and cools...) the engine after shutdown...)

Actually, there is no direct relationship between displacement and horsepower. The two major factors are (1) how much air and fuel you can enter the cylinders and (2) the bore and stroke. Here's where it get's interesting: When an engine is tested, engine speed and torque are measured, but horsepower is calculated. The formula that is used to calculate horsepower is:

hp = (torque X rpm)/5252

If we have two engines that are identical except for the bore and stroke, then the engine with the longer stroke will produce more torque. Then the question becomes, at what speed does maximum torque occur? If both engines produce maximum torque at the same speed, then the engine that has the longer stroke, hence more torque, will generate more horsepower.

Think of a Harley V-twin and a big Suzuki I-4. The Harley makes huge torque, but it's maximum operating speed is relatively low. The Suzuki makes, perhaps half the torque but that torque occurs at an engine speed that is perhaps three or four times greater than that of the Harley's, hence, the Suzuki generates much more in the way of horsepower. It's all in the math...

By the way, if you know the speed at which the horsepower rating of your tractor applies, then you can calculate the torque by rearranging the formula for hp in the following manner:

torque = (hp X 5252)/rpm

NOTE: If your NA tractor were located in, say, Denver, where the air is thinner, then your tractor would be noticeably short on power.

Situations like this remind me of the 1970's when guys would argue over specs of their stereo systems, especially speakers, where the differences were usually outside the audible range of humans.

 

[LiveDog]

I ordered the 60" Wicked double lid. The bucket on the 3725 is 67" inside and the outer edge of the tires with 2" spacers is a couple inches more than that.

I had a hard time deciding between the 66" and 60". My uses will include brush (coyote brush and poison oak), logs, and cut firewood length rounds.

PLEASE LMK how this works out for you...

My bucket on the KUBOTA L4701DT is 72" and I believe I have the lifting capacity/HP to handle the 72" grapple but again, for maneuverability I am more-seriously considering the 66" (with the added/removable tines)... I am going to run the new tractor/use the loader/bucket, listen to other feed-back and then decide/order ASAP (prolly from EA but I am negotiating with others/options)...

 

[mike69440]

66" works well for your size machine. If just handling light brush,. a lightweight 72" will carry more. For general purpose use, the 66" is better. E-Bay has some good pricing on grapples, Not bad quality, great price, not Wicked grapple but for what you get, I can't figure how they are priced so low? I've seen one in person.

 

[LiveDog]

66" works well for your size machine. If just handling light brush,. a lightweight 72" will carry more. For general purpose use, the 66" is better. E-Bay has some good pricing on grapples, Not bad quality, great price, not Wicked grapple but for what you get, I can't figure how they are priced so low? I've seen one in person.

Thanks for the confirmation... FYI, I ordered the 66" EA Wicked Grapple with dual lids this a.m... I will post action pics when it arrives in ~3 weeks...

 

[TSO]

For what it's worth, i believe your numbers are wrong on the FEL lift specs of the L4701... From memory, that loader is under 2000 lbs. And the 3pt lift on the L4701 will also be quite a bit less than the XR4150. Note, the L4701 is more of a "budget" tractor in the Kubota line.

And for clarification, LS (formerly LG) makes all of their tractors (also makes most New Holland & Case compacts except the CVT machines). LS builds their own engines, though they did use Shibaura for a short time during the Tier 4 conversion until they finished tooling to build theirs again. LS builds a nice machine and you get more "bang for your buck" with them.

Nothing against Kubota, they build good machines too. For prior comparison, feature wise, the appropriate Kubota to compare to the XR4150 would be the Grand L4760. The loader on the 4760 steps up to around 2400 lbs IIRC.

 

[s219]

For what it's worth, i believe your numbers are wrong on the FEL lift specs of the L4701... From memory, that loader is under 2000 lbs. And the 3pt lift on the L4701 will also be quite a bit less than the XR4150. Note, the L4701 is more of a "budget" tractor in the Kubota line.

And for clarification, LS (formerly LG) makes all of their tractors (also makes most New Holland & Case compacts except the CVT machines). LS builds their own engines, though they did use Shibaura for a short time during the Tier 4 conversion until they finished tooling to build theirs again. LS builds a nice machine and you get more "bang for your buck" with them.

Nothing against Kubota, they build good machines too. For prior comparison, feature wise, the appropriate Kubota to compare to the XR4150 would be the Grand L4760. The loader on the 4760 steps up to around 2400 lbs IIRC.

Based on past experience, I think it's also very important to take lift height into account when comparing loaders across brands. Kubota loaders tend to lift higher, for example 10-12" higher than Mahindras I have compared to. Capacity decreases with height, but if you look at the capacity-versus-height curve and compare the Kubota at the same lower height as the other brands, it's usually same or better capacity. I don't know specs for the 4701 offhand, but anybody cross shopping it should be sure to properly rectify the loader capacity and not just use the website specs.

 

[ericm979]

Also some loaders are rated at the pins, others rated some distance out which is more realistic.

 

[LiveDog]

For what it's worth, i believe your numbers are wrong on the FEL lift specs of the L4701... From memory, that loader is under 2000 lbs. And the 3pt lift on the L4701 will also be quite a bit less than the XR4150. Note, the L4701 is more of a "budget" tractor in the Kubota line.

And for clarification, LS (formerly LG) makes all of their tractors (also makes most New Holland & Case compacts except the CVT machines). LS builds their own engines, though they did use Shibaura for a short time during the Tier 4 conversion until they finished tooling to build theirs again. LS builds a nice machine and you get more "bang for your buck" with them.

Nothing against Kubota, they build good machines too. For prior comparison, feature wise, the appropriate Kubota to compare to the XR4150 would be the Grand L4760. The loader on the 4760 steps up to around 2400 lbs IIRC.

If I agreed with you we'd prolly BOTH be wrong... I am not arguing with you, I am just trying to explain why you (and I) may be in error...

FTR, I took ALL those numbers directly off their respective OEM PUBLISHED (HARD-COPY) spec-sheets... NOTHING WAS FROM MEMORY... I will say AGAIN that OEM specs sometimes need to be 'qualified' and I tried to do that to the best of my ability... I stand by those numbers and can show/prove their origin...

I VERY recently looked at LS XR4140 and 4150 and they had 3-cyl turbo engines from a different OEM (IE. NOT LS)... I suppose it is possible they have made a major change in that dept. during the past 3 weeks... Good for LS... I came close to buying one... Again, VERY nice machines at a good price with some interesting extras...

I have since taken delivery of a KUBOTA L4701 DT and could not be happier... After mixing approx. 8 tons of potting soil and consolidating MANY brush-piles (115 to be exact), etc. I made the right/best decision for my Central Florida farm... The size/weight/power-ratio is near-perfect/EXCELLENT... The 3rd-function hydraulics are SMOOTH/intuitive... A VERY respectable 'economy' farm/utility tractor... BTW, the larger/robust frame/weight/wheel-base is VERY different/unique from the other L-series... My dealer estimated the wet-weight of this machine (R4/IND filled tires with 72" RB/72" FEL to be over 5500#)... I recommend this machine/OEM to all you who are looking/researching/pricing in this category... A reminder; This is a 4 cylinder naturally-aspirated diesel engine rated at ~47.3 HP... Look at/compare the OEM specs for yourself...

I appreciate any/all input...

I know YOU ALL want photo-documentation/cerebral-image/eye-candy... I will be posting pics in the next few weeks...

 

[TSO]

The Kubota brochure you are looking at lists the number of 2870 as the 3-point lift at the pins, and then there was another number, around 2300 lb, 24 inch aft of the lift points. Those are numbers for the rear lift of the tractor, not the front loader. Kubota for some reason does not make it easy to find the actual published lift numbers for the L series tractor loaders. The loader lift capacity at full height at the pins is somewhere under 1700 lb. That is the standard measurement point that most manufacturers use nowadays, so it is a fair comparison, because all of the other manufacturers list their lift capacity at the pin at maximum height. Personally I think that is a dumb measurement, I would much prefer a standard that was more applicable to what most people actually use their machines for. Like, a standard pallet lift requirement with the same standard set of pallet Forks, lift at ground level and lift at 4 foot height.

Anyhow... Yes as was mentioned, it is important to also look at the lift height for comparison. Kubota does not lift any higher than most other major brands. However, the LS loaders are rated with a lower maximum lift height than practically every other brand.... And that is worth mentioning.

What is the name of the engine plate of the ls you looked at? The brand name that LS uses is called LS mtron. They've also also built engines licensed under Mitsubishi in the past, and the 2.2 L engines in the r-series, tier 3, were LS built Mitsubishi engines.

Congratulations on your new tractor, I'm sure that as long as it is the right size machine for you, and you are satisfied with your dealer and the deal you made, that is all that matters.

And yes, make sure that you post pictures!

 

[LiveDog]

The Kubota brochure you are looking at lists the number of 2870 as the 3-point lift at the pins, and then there was another number, around 2300 lb, 24 inch aft of the lift points. Those are numbers for the rear lift of the tractor, not the front loader. Kubota for some reason does not make it easy to find the actual published lift numbers for the L series tractor loaders. The loader lift capacity at full height at the pins is somewhere under 1700 lb. That is the standard measurement point that most manufacturers use nowadays, so it is a fair comparison, because all of the other manufacturers list their lift capacity at the pin at maximum height. Personally I think that is a dumb measurement, I would much prefer a standard that was more applicable to what most people actually use their machines for. Like, a standard pallet lift requirement with the same standard set of pallet Forks, lift at ground level and lift at 4 foot height.

Anyhow... Yes as was mentioned, it is important to also look at the lift height for comparison. Kubota does not lift any higher than most other major brands. However, the LS loaders are rated with a lower maximum lift height than practically every other brand.... And that is worth mentioning.

What is the name of the engine plate of the ls you looked at? The brand name that LS uses is called LS mtron. They've also also built engines licensed under Mitsubishi in the past, and the 2.2 L engines in the r-series, tier 3, were LS built Mitsubishi engines.

Congratulations on your new tractor, I'm sure that as long as it is the right size machine for you, and you are satisfied with your dealer and the deal you made, that is all that matters.

And yes, make sure that you post pictures!

YOU are right... I stand corrected... KUBOTA specs for the FEL are not as easy to pin-down (pun intended) and measurements taken in different locations/heights vary... I welcome the info and have posted an amended version of the specs below but still not sure of where/how the FEL measurements are made on this machine...

As for the LS engines I saw, I believe they were Shibaura and the 'newer' ones may be Mitsubishi (made by LS?)... What is the relationship between LG and LS?

kubota L4701DT $24,200 w/ FEL
Net HP 44.8
PTO HP 39.3
Cu In Disp 148.5
B/S 3.4” x 4”
Torque 107.8 ft. lbs.
# Cyl 4 NA
Trans 8 f/r SShuttle
3 Pt Cat 1 2,870 / 2,320
Fuel 13.5 Top Tank
Hyd Pump 7.8 gpm
Length OA 122.8”
Wheelbase 72.8
Width 62.4
Tires IND/R4
Weight 3296
FEL lift capacity bucket pivot pin max height 1,684
FEL lift capacity bucket pivot pin 1500mm height 2,154
FEL breakout force bucket pivot pin 3,153
RRemote 0
Hyd Position/0 Draft
Seat Standard Adj
3 Pt LL Fixed
OEM Kubota