Kubota L6060 Engine failure

[sd455dan]

A new engine, but not necessarily THAT new engine.
And if it boils down to needing an ECU wiring harness your new engine would have been a waste of even more money.

Yeah- it will be a Real kick in the head- if it is a bad/ intermittent signal from a sensor due to a harness problem.
I could see a bad or malfunctioning crankshaft position sensor among others causing a shut down and then no start condition like this.

But the ECU should keep a record of the loss of signal or signal out of bounds.

Diesels with their high compression Really don't like a mis timed injection event(s). So any faults the ECU sees will trigger a do not not fire the injectors.

Does the Kubota dealer have even basic fuel injection test equipment?

No mention of NOID lights. typical under 100 dollar test equipment for gas or diesel common rail fuel injection .

As a simple test The Noid lights would have told the dealer immediately whether the injectors are receiving firing signals during engine cranking. No flashing Noid, No Injection event, No Fire, No Start.

Also A very easy test to do at the point the dealer says you are at Now, (New pump and ECU) But no start...

Something sure sounds fishy about the troubleshooting to determine root cause so far.

Modern ECU controlled CR was worked on by "FIAT" of all companies sold to Bosch who really advanced it. ( Probably the best purchase Bosch Ever made) Common Rail diesel has been in broad use for almost 20 years.

You would think Kubota would have some well trained crack field agents or at least help line for their dealer techs for a dead tractor like this.

If the (OP) does end up getting charged for parts installed so far, DEMAND ALL of the OLD Parts.

 

[RickB]

Yeah- it will be a Real kick in the head- if it is a bad/ intermittent signal from a sensor due to a harness problem.
I could see a bad or malfunctioning crankshaft position sensor among others causing a shut down and then no start condition like this.

But the ECU should keep a record of the loss of signal or signal out of bounds.

Diesels with their high compression Really don't like a mis timed injection event(s). So any faults the ECU sees will trigger a do not not fire the injectors.

Does the Kubota dealer have even basic fuel injection test equipment?

No mention of NOID lights. typical under 100 dollar test equipment for gas or diesel common rail fuel injection .

As a simple test The Noid lights would have told the dealer immediately whether the injectors are receiving firing signals during engine cranking. No flashing Noid, No Injection event, No Fire, No Start.

Also A very easy test to do at the point the dealer says you are at Now, (New pump and ECU) But no start...

Something sure sounds fishy about the troubleshooting to determine root cause so far.

Modern ECU controlled CR was worked on by "FIAT" of all companies sold to Bosch who really advanced it. ( Probably the best purchase Bosch Ever made) Common Rail diesel has been in broad use for almost 20 years.

You would think Kubota would have some well trained crack field agents or at least help line for their dealer techs for a dead tractor like this.

If the (OP) does end up getting charged for parts installed so far, DEMAND ALL of the OLD Parts.

Basic fuel injector test equipment is inadequate for electronic injectors.
Electronic fuel injectors are not tested at the Kubota dealership level for warranty purposes, therefore by extension for any reason.
Kubota requires its dealers to have a dedicated laptop(s) loaded with their proprietary diagnostic software. ECU data is regularly transmitted to Kubota's service support group. The level of available diagnostic and troubleshooting support available to dealers exceeds your commentary by a fairly wide margin.

 

[MHarryE]

Here is a CRI injector I have lying around. Not Kubota. Important thing is the serial number at the top. There is a trim file with the injector. That is all that is serviceable. Replace the injector, load the trim file into the engine ECU, and that’s it. For this injector the engine will periodically go into its own diagnostic mode and fine tune the engine ECM based on what the sensors are feeding back. The trim file at the start is based on that injector at the time it was built. The engine fine tunes it in operation.

It’s not unlike other consumer products. I lost a hearing aid, covered by insurance. I have the replacement but the trim file is at my audiologist 240 miles away. She cannot send me the file to upload using Bluetooth. I need to drive to her office and have her upload by Bluetooth. She needs her piece of the action. Fortunately some things can be done by the user. When I quit using my computer tonight it informed me to make sure it was plugged in to a power supply. Tonight it is updating the bios, then updating to the latest Windows version. Tomorrow I find out if it went well but at least no dealer involved.

 

[AKForest]

I begin this thread knowing very little about the finer points of electronic interaction with this engine. I have learned a great deal from all of you.

The following input comes directly from the dealership mechanic. They hooked my tractor up to their computer with all the proprietary software that Kubota provided them, as described by RickB. It told them nothing. They replaced the injector pump solely based on the fact that there was no pressure in the rail. The new injector pump produced pressure but the tractor would not start. Again the diagnostic software told then nothing. The mechanic put a multimeter on the wires running to the injectors and got inadequate voltage to open the injectors. Based on this, the ECU was ordered. On February 9 the ECU was replaced, but the tractor still did not start. Suspicion then fell on the injectors. As RickB pointed out, the injectors cannot be tested at the dealership. they must be shipped out to a special facility approved by Kubota. At this point I refused to authorize further expenditures until I heard from Kubota about their responsibility. I have written two letters to Kubota. I have spoken to a Kubota representative as late as Friday of last week. She promised some type of response by Tuesday. AS of today the tractor has been down for nearly two and a half months.

 

[arto98607]

Sorry to hear about your continuing tractor trouble

It sounds like one needs to own a spare tractor if he is relying on Kubota!

 

[BeezFun]

AS of today the tractor has been down for nearly two and a half months.

I can't remember if you said whether this it the dealer where you bought your tractor, but have they offered to give you a loaner to use? The place I bought mine will give a loaner if they have to keep a machine more than a week or so. Especially since you're making a living with your tractor.

 

[AKForest]

I can't remember if you said whether this it the dealer where you bought your tractor, but have they offered to give you a loaner to use? The place I bought mine will give a loaner if they have to keep a machine more than a week or so. Especially since you're making a living with your tractor.

Yes it is the dealer where I purchased the tractor, and no they did not offer a loner. Anyway, they are 260 miles away over a sketchy, ice covered road, in winter.

 

[BeezFun]

Yes it is the dealer where I purchased the tractor, and no they did not offer a loner. Anyway, they are 260 miles away over a sketchy, ice covered road, in winter.

I've been on that road, but it was in July. Started in Anchorage and drove up to ANWR, parked on the side of the road and hiked for 2 weeks. Also hiked Denali and Johnson's pass.
Sorry you are having so much trouble. This is the biggest tractor fiasco I think I've ever read about.

 

[AKForest]

In the continuing saga that I initiated on my birthday, February 17, I finally got an update. As a result, I drafted the following letter to Kubota. Several people have asked me to keep them posted concerning progress on my tractor repair. here it is.


It has been nearly three months since I lost use of my Kubota L6060 tractor. It has been at the Kubota dealership for repairs since December 31. Today, I was told that all four of the injectors had been tested, found faulty, and needed to be replaced. I was told that if I wanted the tractor back in running order any time soon I needed to pay for all costs for parts and labor, for a total of $10,027.09. This was not a guarantee that the tractor will run, but it is a step in the process; as were the injector pump and the ECU. My alternative is to wait and see whether Kubota will pay for any or all of these expenses. The dealership said that any decision by Kubota could take some time because someone at Kubota, specifically Steve Americano, wanted to test fuel from the tank of the tractor.



The testing of fuel is ludicrous. The fuel was delivered to my new, 300 gallon tank, by Crowley Fuel Co., one of the largest fuel companies in Alaska. My tank has a CIMTEK filter which removes particles down to 10 microns and is designed to prevent the passage of any water. Furthermore, if water did enter the fuel tank through condensation, the tractor was designed by Kubota to remove water by employing a water separator. A second canister filter provides additional protection. When I discussed this with Crowley, they suggested I ask Kubota how contaminants in the fuel could cause the ECU to fail. The actions by Steve Americano appear to me to be either a delay tactic or an attempt to blame someone or something for the chain reaction failure of this Kubota engine. As I have stated in previous correspondence, the only logical reason for such a catastrophic failure would appear to be faulty parts, poor assembly or bad engineering. I have been in contact with numerous tractor owners, operators, and mechanics on the internet. There is a vast network of experience out there. Many of these people I corresponded with have seen individual tractor parts fail. It is a consequence of owning a piece of equipment. However, none have experienced such a chain reaction failure as I did. If there was any consensus it was that the ECU was the culprit or possibly wiring..



As of today, I have agreed to pay the ESI Kubota Dealership $10,027.09 to get my tractor put back together and running properly so that I can resume work. This does not mean that I will not continue to pursue every means at my disposal to require Kubota to extend the warranty to cover my costs in this matter.



I have performed my responsibilities as defined in the owners manual to maintain my tractor in the best manner possible. In spite of this, the engine has failed catastrophically. I have lost much of my logging season which is my primary source of income. At this point, I feel that Kubota has failed me. In the bigger picture, Kubota may have failed in producing a world class product in the L6060. In addition, at least so far, Kubota has not supported the repair a piece of their equipment when it failed to live up to what should be their standard.

 

[MoKelly]

In the continuing saga that I initiated on my birthday, February 17, I finally got an update. As a result, I drafted the following letter to Kubota. Several people have asked me to keep them posted concerning progress on my tractor repair. here it is.


It has been nearly three months since I lost use of my Kubota L6060 tractor. It has been at the Kubota dealership for repairs since December 31. Today, I was told that all four of the injectors had been tested, found faulty, and needed to be replaced. I was told that if I wanted the tractor back in running order any time soon I needed to pay for all costs for parts and labor, for a total of $10,027.09. This was not a guarantee that the tractor will run, but it is a step in the process; as were the injector pump and the ECU. My alternative is to wait and see whether Kubota will pay for any or all of these expenses. The dealership said that any decision by Kubota could take some time because someone at Kubota, specifically Steve Americano, wanted to test fuel from the tank of the tractor.



The testing of fuel is ludicrous. The fuel was delivered to my new, 300 gallon tank, by Crowley Fuel Co., one of the largest fuel companies in Alaska. My tank has a CIMTEK filter which removes particles down to 10 microns and is designed to prevent the passage of any water. Furthermore, if water did enter the fuel tank through condensation, the tractor was designed by Kubota to remove water by employing a water separator. A second canister filter provides additional protection. When I discussed this with Crowley, they suggested I ask Kubota how contaminants in the fuel could cause the ECU to fail. The actions by Steve Americano appear to me to be either a delay tactic or an attempt to blame someone or something for the chain reaction failure of this Kubota engine. As I have stated in previous correspondence, the only logical reason for such a catastrophic failure would appear to be faulty parts, poor assembly or bad engineering. I have been in contact with numerous tractor owners, operators, and mechanics on the internet. There is a vast network of experience out there. Many of these people I corresponded with have seen individual tractor parts fail. It is a consequence of owning a piece of equipment. However, none have experienced such a chain reaction failure as I did. If there was any consensus it was that the ECU was the culprit or possibly wiring..



As of today, I have agreed to pay the ESI Kubota Dealership $10,027.09 to get my tractor put back together and running properly so that I can resume work. This does not mean that I will not continue to pursue every means at my disposal to require Kubota to extend the warranty to cover my costs in this matter.



I have performed my responsibilities as defined in the owners manual to maintain my tractor in the best manner possible. In spite of this, the engine has failed catastrophically. I have lost much of my logging season which is my primary source of income. At this point, I feel that Kubota has failed me. In the bigger picture, Kubota may have failed in producing a world class product in the L6060. In addition, at least so far, Kubota has not supported the repair a piece of their equipment when it failed to live up to what should be their standard.

Good letter - clear, calm but firm. You say you will “continue to pursue every means at my disposal” to get them to cover your costs on the tractor. Perhaps you can hint that they should also cover your lost income due to non-use of the machine.

In any case, I’m sorry for all the stuff you’ve had to go thru and wish you nothing but good luck going forward.

MoKelly