Kubota pricing link doesn't works at Aldermans.com

tralderman · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

( I applaud the efforts of any dealership owner to take the time to address the concerns of his customers, potential customers or just fans. It shows a level of dedication to customer satisfaction sorely lacking in most businesses these days. )

Great. . .I'm wonderfull, I'm swell, I'm really neat. BUT will you buy from me because I am such a swell guy?

Will you buy from a dealer like Neil Messick and I because we offer our opinions and advice on TBN? Will you buy from us because we offer unmatched levels of customer support after the sale? Will you buy from a dealer who has more trained mechanics on staff than any other dealer in the area? Will you buy from a dealer who can fill your entire parts order on the first pass? Will you buy from a dealer who can offer a quick turn around time on repairs? Will you buy from a dealer who treats you professionally and who values you business?

Sorry, the answer is often no. Let's be truthful here the lowest price wins every time. PERIOD! Anyone who claims otherwise is full of it. Yes, you do sense a bit of sarchasm in my post but all this talk of applauding us because we CARE is lip service. Will you reward a dealer like me with cute "Instant Faces" posted on TBN or will you reward a dealer who "offers a level of dedication to customer satisfaction sorely lacking in most businesses these days" with your dollars?

Dataway · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

I've bought my trucks all at the same dealership. Far as I can tell I don't get any special consideration in the service dept. From what I can tell in almost any dealership selling anything the sales dept. and the service dept. don't communicate particularly well. And often times guys in the service dept. don't like the salesmen that are always making big claims to a good customer that the service dept. then has to attempt to fulfill.
To me, sales and service are two totally different games. If I bring a product in for service I expect the dealer to appreciate my service dollars as much as they would my purchase dollars. I would never purchase from a dealer that holds my level of service captive depending on where you purchased your product. If I get good service...I go back for more.
If I buy a tractor in NY and have it serviced in Ohio...I expect the dealership in Ohio to appreciated my business as much as they would anyone else.

And, well maybe I'm an exception but yes I'll pay a bit more for a product from people who are at least nice and seem professional. The BIG difference is...when I go to my GMC dealer to buy another truck. I go in with a particular price in mind, gleaned from information found from numerous sources. I tell the salesman, this is what I want to pay, you can take it or leave it. So far they've always taken it, I don't expect to steal anything, I always leave in what I feel is a margin for the dealership. I don't expect them to sell product at cost. However with tractors we don't have this option, the information is purposedly kept from us.

It WILL change, just like the auto market did. Whenever there is a hot product like compact tractors the consumer will pay the price at first. But eventually a company will see the light and move to expand their customer base by aggressively marketing their product. Soon after the other manufacturers will follow. It's happened with every product that's ever gotten popular. No matter how good a product is it will eventually lose market share if their pricing is not competitive with products of similar quality. We have but to wait, every year more and more companies get involved in the compact tractor market, and more used machines come on the market. Market forces will demand that a manufacturer become more realistic with their pricing policies. Right now manufacturers have a sellers market. It won't always be that way. There was a time when US car makers had a sellers market too. There was a time when Japanese car makers had a sellers market. Times change.
JohnnyB

MessickFarmEqu · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

(

It WILL change, just like the auto market did. Whenever there is a hot product like compact tractors the consumer will pay the price at first. But eventually a company will see the light and move to expand their customer base by aggressively marketing their product. Soon after the other manufacturers will follow. It's happened with every product that's ever gotten popular. No matter how good a product is it will eventually lose market share if their pricing is not competitive with products of similar quality. We have but to wait, every year more and more companies get involved in the compact tractor market, and more used machines come on the market. Market forces will demand that a manufacturer become more realistic with their pricing policies. Right now manufacturers have a sellers market. It won't always be that way. There was a time when US car makers had a sellers market too. There was a time when Japanese car makers had a sellers market. Times change.
JohnnyB )

Other than Cars I can't think of any product that you can dig up pricing stuff online. If pricing cars is like pricing tractors you probably don't even know half the story. It might make you feel better to be able to pull up some information online and punch some numbers together, but I doubt what your able to come up with is simular to what the dealer calculates. It drives me crazy when people link to that minosota state list pricing PDF because that information, even though its a year old, is so out of date and incomplete its worthless. For the customers who come in here price shopping aggressivly I do commonly tell them what profit margin I have worked into a deal. After that, they tend to stop pushing because they then know how little it can be.

tralderman · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

( I always leave in what I feel is a margin for the dealership. I don't expect them to sell product at cost.)

Aha! There it is. There's the statement I have been waiting to see. Since when does the consumer have any idea what a fair margin is? Since when does the buyer feel he can decide what a dealer should make on a product? None of you has any idea how many dollars it takes to keep a dealership open. None of you has any idea how many dollars it takes to employ highly trained technicians, keep shelves stocked full of parts, offer healthcare and a matching IRA, keep service vehicles well maintained and full of $2.55 fuel, heat a 38,000 square foot service shop, etc.

I do not overcharge any of my customers. I give the best deal I can possibly give to everyone whether they are a regular or a walk-in. Any dealer who wishes to stay in business must do the same. My point is that every dealer is different. Some might only have one parts salesman, we have 5. Some might only have 2 or 3 service techs, we have 13. Some might be fixing your tractor on a dirt floored shop, we are state of the art. Some dealers may leave crates outside, we store all our Kubota's inside a warehouse. I operate my business the way I do to EARN you business.

This is why I say shop dealer first, price second.

orangebluegreen · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

At least with autos you know the dealer has a 3% holdback from the manufacturer so when they act like selling at invoice is a big deal, it isn’t. Obviously if a dealer is low volume with high enough overhead it’s impossible to sell at such low margins. The area I live in is absolutely awful. There are so many wealthy people in the area that most businesses do not have to run efficiently because there is so much slop in the market they’ll eventually find some sucker to pay MSRP or higher. What is interesting is my area used to be winter home only but in the last 5-10 years it has changed dramatically to year round and population is growing at rates putting it in the top 10 in the country. I am starting to see these businesses that had been run with sloppy poor attitudes starting to go out of business because those who move here from the north are used to better dealers and shop elsewhere when turned off by the Fla good ole boy mentality. I’m from Ohio originally so I can better appreciate long family held business (I was involved with one). This area....they are still fighting the Civil War with a “let’s get that Yankee attitude”. It is really worse than one can imagine. The dealer who told me his cost is above what others are selling for (he offered this info, I didn’t ask) has NO dealer showroom, NO lot, and people who KNOW NOTHING. They are a small building in an industrial area and call themselves a dealer and expect people to pay prices well above others for what? Like everyone says, every area differs. I agree somewhat with Alderman that most people go for price. True, but if there are competitors in an area and one is well run, has inventory, looks like they’ll be there in the next 10 years, and stocks parts, I would definitely try to support them.

I would assume the reason one has a website to begin with is to drive business, if they are frustrated business is lacking, it may actually be the economy and more competitors. I am dependant on the web to a large part for what I do. I was one of the first online 10 years ago and got great response, but now that everyone is online my inquiries have dropped dramatically. What’s worse is it has allowed real fly-by-nights to appear to be legit in the same small business and they don’t have the over 30 years experience that we do. I have however driven all the way to NC in the past for an auto when I couldn’t find what I wanted locally because of the dealer games played here. I have actually made good offers locally on vehicles that were refused, and then find they sent the vehicle to auction where I know they got less than what I offered. It’s a game where they do not want the public to get any decent deals. They are not happy unless they feel they hammered you. I talked to a Honda mechanic at my local dealer, he said even he couldn’t buy from his own employer because of their attitude in pricing, that’s pathetic.

BTW, I look at both Messick and sometimes Alderman’s site to see if you turn up any nice B2410’s. I see one over 24 hours away from me and I am considering it, but I’m not too happy with the price so I’m holding off a while. Distance, if factored into the price, it means nothing to me. I can do almost all mechanical work needed.

BTW....with many smaller consumer products you can do a search for the lowest price on the net, shows you the dealer, his price, and link to their web site. Computer parts are like that big time. Obviously tractors are not quite the same, but just to show how things are evolving, some of it not for the good as it could lead to where we no longer can go view an item in person at a retailer. But hey....I already have that now in Fla, the dealers are small and have no inventory.

Also...you dealers should not have the labor of informing the public what MSRP's are, Kubota should be doing that but in this case I would agree with Dataway, it appears an attempt to allow dealers to try to price as high as possible if they think they can get by with it. It's free enterprise other than territory protection, so the jury is out I assume on weather low margin volume or higher price hand holding works best. If Wal-Mart is any indication you might have your answer. MSRP's are useless anyways....why not claim a B7510 has an MSRP of $30,000, but we discount 60%, yeah now that sounds better.

garchib · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

I can respect Alderman's opinions, because he see a different side of the transaction. What I can tell you is that I priced shopped (i.e. bought low) and ended up with another brand (other than the JD I ended up buying in the end) and had massive support issues from the dealer, who was not equipped to handle CUT(s). They were more of a lawnmower dealer. In the end, I returned the problem machine and I bought from a local, well-known dealer who has treated me quite well and give EXCELLENT service, knowing that I was paying more, but they are very close to my house. That decision is paying dividends to me in eliminated hassles. This may be the first time in my adult life when I did not buy based on price, but service and only after making the first mistake did I shift gears.

ByronBob · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

Wow Tim,

We've hit a delicate issue here huh? I appreciate all the knowledge you and guys like Neil have offered here. The best I can offer you and Neil is a thanks and if someone lives in Michigan or the Pennsylvania area to point them to you as an option.
When I shopped for my Kubota the 2 dealers I liked were close in price, location, distance and were friendly. So when it comes down to $300 and you like them both what's the decision maker?
We'll never understand the behind the scenes of what it's like to run a business. We all make decisions on how to buy a tractor but realistically some people see what you do and decide it's the right way to buy while others only look at money...... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

gsxr1100 · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

I ago with you, I want, yes want the dealer to make money; but at the same time do not take me for a ride. You want to keep everyone happy so it is best for both parties. But then again you should not be paying retail either.

I personally think the “fair margin” is when the price is compared to others. Is it close or way off. I know my local Kubota stealer was 17% more then what I paid. That to me is nuts and flat out highway robbery. When a dealer starts preaching his bottom line, expenses, I look & go the other way since I do not have time for this. I do not get this line when I buy I car, I am not dealing with it with something that is less then 50% of that. I drove 1-hour from my house and bought my car for more then $8,000 less then my local car dealer. No talking, no putting high prices on car and working down, just sealing cars at low prices. No wonder they are #1 in Mass as the largest dealer.

Now in this case, your 13 service people ,sales people can work both ways. Same with overhead. But then if you have more overhead 10 to 1 you have more $$$$ leverage. So you can buy more at one time and get a better deal.

As I stated over two months ago, make some money but do not nickel and dime me to death either.

LarryRB · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

This, is a problem. I made up my mind a couple years back that if and when I buy a Kubota, it would be from a large dealer in mid state NY that has 3 dealerships or Messicks. The NY dealer I had e-mailed 2 and no answer. I took it as he didn't want to deal that far out, As it turns out, they were re-doing web pages and stuff and probably my e-mails were lost in the shuffle. With this said, I turned to dealer #2, Messicks. Instant service and right on the ball. I won't say whatthe total pricing was but will say, over all, with the L 48 and a number of options like power angle snow plow, third valve, quick release hoe buckets and other things, including 50 hour service parts, 10 gallons of super UDT and complete manuals, Neil and I agreed if I went 170 miles and his truck went the same, we would swap the equipment at a truck stop in Maybrook New York.. He threw in a small delivery charge, enough to cover the fuel and not much more. All told, including 6% CT sales tax and to the truck stop, it was still 9800.00 cheaper than any dealer price I obtained in New England.. I still maintain Kubota should follow JD example and at least post a web page with MSRP pricing. It is this, that I find the big problem in this area,. I see as much as 5000,. quoted difference or possibly more, from dealer to dealer on the exact same machine and options. At least with Deere, the dealers regardless where they are, can't spout a figure which hits their fancy at that moment... Obviously, delivery charges may be more here than say California. I truly belive if Kubota can control the New England dealers to the point that ALL MSRP's are quoted identical, they would run away with the sales... I understant the arguments of overhead too, My in laws were IH/Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth/Jeep dealers 51 years,,, Oh, and the real Junkman did come with me to get the tractor,....We had a good time that day.

Dataway · Aug 11, 2005

Re: Kubota pricing link doesn\'t works at Aldermans.com

I totally discount stories of overhead, payroll, health insurance etc etc. That's the dealers problem. If I go in to buy a tractor and start telling them of my problems, kids, college, taxes, heating oil....do you think the salesman cares about my problems? Is he going to cut me some slack because I live on a slim margin? He's going to knock a $1000 off because my house needs painting....I don't think so. So, I don't want to hear about his overhead. Is he going to knock a $1000 off because I promise to be a good customer, not complain about service, treat my tractor well, buy all my Hydraulic fluid from him? I don't think so.

It WILL be a competitive market. Those that don't offer good pricing AND good service will fall by the wayside. It can be done, there are dealers doing it.

In the Auto market there are tons of excellent sources for dealer costs on a vehicle. I use a fee service that provides about 20 pages of information down to the dealer cost of every option. And in the long run it doesn't matter if it's accurage to 1%....what matters is I THINK I'm getting a good price so I buy the vehicle. So I'm happy, and the dealer sells more product.

The internet provides competitive pricing on everything from cars to electronics to homes. It's changing the way business is done...for better or worse only the future will tell. But it WILL happen to the tractor market too. The dealers that embrace the new trends will thrive. Customers that empower themselves with the information will save.

Tractors will bodly go where no tractor has gone before.....err...ok well maybe that's a bit much.
JohnnyB