Kubota releasing 2 tracked skid steers

[Digdeep]

Scroll down on Messicks site.Track Loaders

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/150392-kubota-skid-steer.html#post1732304

They won't be available until next year.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I think it makes alot of sense for them to put the brakes on the track loaders until the market starts to recover. Thats a really messy place to go right now.

 

[Ken45101]

I think it makes alot of sense for them to put the brakes on the track loaders until the market starts to recover. Thats a really messy place to go right now.

I was thinking the same thing. I would be crazy to introduce a new line of equipment when every other CTL manufacture is making deals to move stuck inventory and closing plants. Coming to market now would be a good way to get a bad start.

Ken

 

[Digdeep]

They also weren't going to offer an enclosed cab and that would've limited their initial orders by the Northern Kubota dealers.

 

[irwin]

If Kubota needs somewhere to store one they've already built.... I have a little room.

 

[Ken45101]

If Kubota needs somewhere to store one they've already built.... I have a little room.

LOL. Yeah, I'm running out of room, but I guess I could sacrifice and squeeze things in tight

Ken

 

[Ken45101]

They also weren't going to offer an enclosed cab and that would've limited their initial orders by the Northern Kubota dealers.

Ouch! From what I hear, that would cut the market even in moderate climes for certain attachments (such as rotary cutters and mulchers) which should have enclosed cabs.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

They also weren't going to offer an enclosed cab and that would've limited their initial orders by the Northern Kubota dealers.

That would be us... apparently they had some plan in place to ship us cabs to fit to the machines once they became availalble. 90% of the Case and New Holland track machines we sell today are cabs. My understanding was that after this delay they will be shipping with a cab available.

 

[Deere325]

That is interesting news. I knew that it was going to happen but I didn't know when.

I hope that Kubota did their market research and have realistic market share goals because the North American skid steer market has been historically difficult to penetrate. JCB, Komatsu, John Deere, and Toyota can attest to that.

I agree. Bobcat seems to still be in the lead. It seems to me tho that John Deere are breaking in tho. I'm seeing ALOT more Deere machines and many companies that ran Bobcat are switching to Deere machines. From my experiences Deere's 300 series are good machines.

 

[art]

Deere has had some vary aggressive pricing to get into the market even getting below the depth of the bobcat line.

The Kubota will be a superior machine in the market place for what I've seen and I doubt they will be a price point machine but for someone looking for higher quality.

 

[Ken45101]

The Kubota will be a superior machine in the market place for what I've seen and I doubt they will be a price point machine but for someone looking for higher quality.

But they would have to establish a good reputation before there would be any significant acceptance. Remember, this isn't the homeowner tractor market where we know and respect Kubota. Deere has a good reputation and exposure in the big construction market so skid steers and ctls are just the small end of that market for them.

Kubota is more like New Holland, not so well known in the broad construction market as Cat, Deere, or Bobcat. If Kubota prices their CTL at a premium, I think they will have an uphill battle to sucessfully enter the market. at least in the U.S.

Ken

 

[irwin]

So the big sellers are... #1 Bobcat, #2 ?? New Holland, Deere, Caterpillar, Gehl, Case ?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

But they would have to establish a good reputation before there would be any significant acceptance.

Kubota is more like New Holland, not so well known in the broad construction market as Cat, Deere, or Bobcat.
Ken

Kubota is the largest producer of Mini-excavators in the world, I believe they passed Bob-cat here in the US a year or two ago. Our experience has been that there are far more skid loaders sold into the lower weight classes than that go to big construction outfits. That's not a market I see them (and kubota dealerships) going after. There is alot of money greasing the wheels of big construction outfits (Golf courses are the same way). Dealerships like us don't play games and work that way so I'm sure 'big construction' will continue to pass up Kubota, even if it ends up being a vastly superior product. They'll continue to support the companies paying for golf outings and steak dinners.

 

[Ken45101]

What's the ratio of CTL vs. rubber tired skid steers being sold? By avoiding the rubber tired loaders, Kubota is keeping themselves out of a significant portion of the market. If a small company has Deere or Bobcat wheeled SSs, and are happy with them, they are more likely to stick with that brand than to go with another new brand for CTL machines. Besides the fact that CTL machines run about $10,000 more than rubber tired machines.

I wish Kubota well and assume they know what they are doing long term. But I think medium term, they are going to have a hard time making significant inroads into the SS market. But that may be okay, Kubota may have good patience and a long term outlood.

You say that Kubota is outselling Bobcat for mini exs. While I don't doubt your numbers, I see very few Kubota mini excavators around here (even though I have a KX-121-3). The mini ex market here is very fragmented.

Ken

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

You say that Kubota is outselling Bobcat for mini exs. While I don't doubt your numbers, I see very few Kubota mini excavators around here (even though I have a KX-121-3). The mini ex market here is very fragmented.

Yea, thats been a pretty undisputed for awhile.

 

[EquipmentJunkie]

I agree with your points, Ken45101. I am guessing that Kubota's mentality is that the CTL market is the growing segment of the skid steer market (or at least was at the time of pulling the R&D trigger), a CTL is a dirt-moving machine and will fit nicely with their existing mini-ex business.

If Kubota was to enter the wheeled skid steer market, they would be entering a mature market that has a commodity mentality. Thus, the way to compete in a mature market is generally on price. This is difficult to do since a vast majority of skid steer components are purchased. (I recall hearing that 80% of a skid steer is from purchased components...seats, lights, pumps, motors, tires, hoses, etc.) Kubota would have an advantage by manufacturing their own engines, but that is hampered by the lack of volume/market share when entering a new but mature market.

I don't know what market share numbers are for CTLs. I am guessing Bobcat followed by Cat, Takeuchi/Gehl/Mustang, Deere, New Holland & Case. Can anybody provide specific numbers?

 

[curtisfarmer]

Hey....doesn't Hitachi make Deeres miniX stuff and Yanmar their TLBs (JD110)?? And doesn't Mitsubishi make CATs small stuff?? Kubota makes their OWN and I think several or at least 1, Bobcrap, uses Kubota engines. Oh, Bobcrap will soon use their new parent Doosan engines going forward. I expect excellence eventually from whatevenr Kubota makes. If you have to get someone else to build your stuff and paint it your color....why bother?

 

[irwin]

A lot of people love Kubota. People buy the brands they like.

Yes' those are general statements.. but I think Kubota would do okay in the CTL market.

 

[ctlguy]

Kubota is the largest producer of Mini-excavators in the world, I believe they passed Bob-cat here in the US a year or two ago. Our experience has been that there are far more skid loaders sold into the lower weight classes than that go to big construction outfits. That's not a market I see them (and kubota dealerships) going after. There is alot of money greasing the wheels of big construction outfits (Golf courses are the same way). Dealerships like us don't play games and work that way so I'm sure 'big construction' will continue to pass up Kubota, even if it ends up being a vastly superior product. They'll continue to support the companies paying for golf outings and steak dinners.

Kind of sour grapes don't ya think Concerning big construction outfits. Yes there are big outfits like Cat and Deere that do things like golf sponserships, meals, etc. That being said I do not believe that in this day and age you can buy a customers business with trinkets like this, these large scale deals are tightly evaluated by the ultimate purchaser with the only thought being "will this help us make more money". It is unfortunate that when a large scale outfit buys compact equipment it usually comes from whomever is already providing the large scale equipment. Dealers are not afraid of buying this business and happens all of the time (but you can not constantly buy marketshare, you will go broke). It can also be very difficult to provide the same level of service that they are already recieving (daily parts delivery, tech's always o/h, etc...). If you can provide these things you may get in the door, or try a different approach , but seems to me you have already decided you can't do business with them.

Now if you are referring to national account type sales my apologies to you, it is not up to a dealer but the mfg to arrange those agreements.

also when did Kubota get a golf course equipment line?

 

[ctlguy]

Sorry with all of my blabbering forgot to say that I think any additional competition in the compact market is fine. Keeps us all honest and on our toes. And Kudo's to any mfg / dealer that can accomplish this.