Comparison Kubota vs Bobcat/Kioti

[Carl Bert]

I just ordered a new Kubota B26. Still shopping around as I wait patiently for my new tractor to be delivered, I looked a little closer at the Bobcat. To my surprise the Bobcat CT335, which is comparable in price to the B26, weighs in at 3600 lbs without the loader or backhoe. Add about 2000 lbs for the backhoe and loader and you've got a 5600 lb machine. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't more weight mean a more solid built tractor. I don't get it, I always thought of Kubota as one of the better built machines, thats what justifies the premium price tag. Now I am starting to think I may have made a mistake. Any advice?

Thanks
Carl B

 

[DiezNutz]

...doesn't more weight mean a more solid built tractor...

Not necessarily. More mass does not always equal greater strength. Third World tractors are usually alot heavier also. Any rube can throw more metal at something, but it takes more skill to design the lightweight version that's just as strong.

I went through similar reasoning as you did before I bought my B, which was lighter than anything else in its class. I came to the above conclusion, plus Kubotas continue to have a good reputation for being tough and dependable. You must have realized this or you wouldn't have ordered one.

Consider the advantages: Less weight on soft ground, less weight to haul.

 

[Gittyup]

The BC you reference is a good quality machine and makes for a great digger. I have the Kioti equivalent in the slightly smaller CK25 and, yes 5600 lbs is about right. Probably a little heavier for the 335. I like it. It works great. Hard to beat for digging, especially for the price. But, it's not the industrial machine that the B26 is. They are really slightly different machines, where the BC/Kioti is more a general purpose tractor that allows for easy change over of functionality, and the B26 is a commercial grade (though small) mainly TLB.

If you need the commerical grade qualities and have the dough (apparently at least the latter is the case), then you made the right choice. The BC/Kioti is great for small farms and estates, and for maybe a landscaper. But, I think the loader/backhoe on the B26 will hold up to continuous use on the level of a day-to-day contractor that does a lot of intensive heavy digging better than would the BC/Kioti attachments. The BC/Kioti would be a bit better if you had to constantly change out, say the backhoe for a boxblade, mower, or tiller, and the loader for a snowblower or broom. But, for straight out digging the B26 is hard to beat in its HP class. I wanted one. Just couldn't affort it nor justify it. My CK25 has been more than enough for my personal use. Outside of the B-series Kubota TLB's like the B26, BC/Kioti is the best digger/loader for the money IMHO.

 

[Dmace]

Keep in mind that the Bobcat CT335 / Kioti DK35SE is a MUCH larger machine with more power and capabilities. That is the reason for the extra weight, it is NOT because some magical engineering at Kubota that makes their steel stronger than others even though it probably comes from the same plant.

Quick Comparison:
Kioti DK35SE / Kubota B26
Weight (with FEL&BH): ~5,500lbs (without cab) / 4,001lbs
Length: 129.1" / No length given for Kubota so compare wheelbase
Wheelbase: 69.5" / 62.2"
Width:61.6" / 53.7"
Engine HP: 38 HP 114 cu.in / 26 HP 68.5 cu.in
Pump Capacity: 15.2 gpm / 11.2 gpm
3pt Hitch Lift: 2,383 lbs / 1,676 lbs
FEL Lift @ pins: 1,412lbs to 102.4" / 1,300lbs to 94.5"
FEL Breakout Force @ pins: 2,640lbs / 2,344lbs
Backhoe digging depth: 94.4" / 99.8"
Digging Force: 2,205lbs / 2,123lbs

So the Kioti/Bobcat tractor is overall a larger machine with a much larger engine, much larger footprint and typically higher capacities. That is the reason for the extra weight, NOT inferior metal nor design.

 

[DiezNutz]

That's a good comparison, shows they really aren't a fair comparison. Maybe they're considered to be the same class, I wouldn't though based on these specs.

All I really said was that Kubotas tend to be among the lightest machines in their class, and there are techniques for achieving strength with less material. I certainly didn't say Kubota had "magic steel", or that everyone else's materials and design were inferior. That's what the Kioti-goggles wanted to see.

 

[beppington]

Apples vs Oranges on this one

 

[Carl Bert]

I never said the two machines were in the same class. The reason for my comparison was the price. It just seems to me that dollar for dollar the Bobcat is giving you a much beefier machine. Now that I see the two specs side by side I realize the two weren't a fair comparison. The CT235 would have been a better choice. But I still sit here thinking that I could get so much more for my money with the CT335. The 335 is actually a few grand less then the B26. Hey they say you get what you pay for, right? I guess I can only hope so.

Thanks
Carl B

 

[Dmace]

I certainly didn't say Kubota had "magic steel", or that everyone else's materials and design were inferior. That's what the Kioti-goggles wanted to see.

Third World tractors are usually alot heavier also. Any rube can throw more metal at something, but it takes more skill to design the lightweight version that's just as strong.

Yeah, that sure sounds like your not calling the other inferior.
Maybe those more expensive, lower performing Kubota glasses don't see that. :laughing:

It just seems to me that dollar for dollar the Bobcat is giving you a much beefier machine. Now that I see the two specs side by side I realize the two weren't a fair comparison. The CT235 would have been a better choice.

That really depends on your needs, the B26 is a TLB which means you typically can't remove the backhoe and don't have a 3pt hitch for attachments like a box-blade, york rake, etc...
Now if you were to use this tractor for commercial digging and ground engaging work, the Kubota would probably hold up better and perform very well for it's size. It's designed solely for ground engaging work.
Also, don't compare the warranties between the two. It won't make you any happier.

 

[crazyal]

It seams to me the B26 is designed for a landscaper type work. The DK would be a terrible choice for that type of work unless you feel the need to do lawn repair work afterwards. Kioti has been running ads on the radio around here lately. The ad is saying that their tractors are not for mowing lawns or the serious farmer. They are targeted towards the gentleman farmer.

 

[TripleR]

Man, some people sure take this stuff too seriously.

 

[art]

Yeah, that sure sounds like your not calling the other inferior.
Maybe those more expensive, lower performing Kubota glasses don't see that. :laughing:


That really depends on your needs, the B26 is a TLB which means you typically can't remove the backhoe and don't have a 3pt hitch for attachments like a box-blade, york rake, etc...
Now if you were to use this tractor for commercial digging and ground engaging work, the Kubota would probably hold up better and perform very well for it's size. It's designed solely for ground engaging work.
Also, don't compare the warranties between the two. It won't make you any happier.

You do have to be aware of peoples pride of what they have purchased and the blindness that comes from lack of knowledge within the industry.

The TLB line of Kubota is complete with removeable backhoes and three point hitch for working back blades as well as mowers and they are still built in a chassis that is comparable with any other compact in size within the horsepower range. This gives a high output hydraulic system that makes them a commercial unit that a normal built compact tractor can't begin to keep up with.

Looking at the another post for the B-26 comparables in loader you needed to get to a 35 horsepower tractor. Now depending on the work uses you might have to go back to a shovel if you don't have the B-26 size because sometimes you just can't always take the largest machine available.

As far as he warrantee's, some companies need them more! I relate more to after the warrantee is gone, where is your hand! I'd have to say that most manufacturers are well aware that the average use of a compact tractor is about 100 hours a year and that my freinds are the guides that some are wanting them to be built by for the warrantee!!!! Next year we gotcha!!!!!!

 

[DiezNutz]

Yeah, that sure sounds like your not calling the other inferior.
Maybe those more expensive, lower performing Kubota glasses don't see that. :laughing:

Are you lost? If you were looking to start another orange-on-orange p!ssing match, my suggestion would be to go back to this thread and have at it:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-buying-pricing/173713-kioti-kubota.html

I'm sincerely glad you like your tractor and have a lot of pride in it. You have to respect the fact that I'm sitting here in my forum, liking and being proud of my tractor, and attempting to reassure Carl here with some positive attributes of his purchase.

I don't go into your forum looking to start trouble.

/done

 

[DiezNutz]

I never said the two machines were in the same class. The reason for my comparison was the price.

You're right Carl, you didn't. I read the rest of your comments and sortof jumped to the conclusion that you did think they were comparable machines (physically). My fault.

So, if you already knew the CT335 was larger, I'm not sure why you were questioning why it was so much heavier.

Man, some people sure take this stuff too seriously.

:laughing: now that's funny.

 

[Gittyup]

I'd be tickled pink if I knew there was a B26 coming to my house soon. Don't worry. Be happy. You bought a great machine. It's different from a CT335, which I'd also be happy to own. They are just different kinds of machines designed for different kinds of users.

 

[Dmace]

You do have to be aware of peoples pride of what they have purchased and the blindness that comes from lack of knowledge within the industry.

That's why I said "TYPICALLY", I listed the 3pt hitch lift capacity of the B26 so obviously I knew it had one. The CK27 (27hp) smaller framed tractor has a still higher 1,764 lbs of lift but not much. The B26 certainly has a comparable 3pt hitch.

This gives a high output hydraulic system that makes them a commercial unit that a normal built compact tractor can't begin to keep up with.

So is that 11.2 GPM hydraulic output the "high output" pump or is there an optional system? Because even the non-commercial CUT 27hp CK27 (12.7 GPM) is higher...

Looking at the another post for the B-26 comparables in loader you needed to get to a 35 horsepower tractor.

Agreed, that is a very good lift capacity for that size machine. What size bucket comes on the tractor?

As far as he warrantee's, some companies need them more! I relate more to after the warrantee is gone, where is your hand! I'd have to say that most manufacturers are well aware that the average use of a compact tractor is about 100 hours a year and that my freinds are the guides that some are wanting them to be built by for the warrantee!!!!

Are they also aware that commercial users are harder on their machines which means they are more likely to break so that's why they CUT THE WARRANTY IN HALF when purchased as a commercial customer? I know my warranty doesn't change when the use of the machine does.
Our warranty is less because you don't need more. :laughing: Yeah right! Anyone who buys that would probably buy ocean-front property in Wyoming too.

Are you lost?
I'm sincerely glad you like your tractor and have a lot of pride in it. You have to respect the fact that I'm sitting here in my forum, liking and being proud of my tractor, and attempting to reassure Carl here with some positive attributes of his purchase.
I don't go into your forum looking to start trouble.

I'm not starting the p!ssing match, you are the one who started p!issing on the "other" tractor. I saw that someone asked for a comparison between a Kioti and Kubota tractor. Just because it's in the Kubota forum as opposed to the general forum doesn't mean I can't answer it. I can't leave a bunch of Kubota owners to give their opinions of Kioti just the same I would not ask the Kioti owners about Kubota specs. I even stated the Kubota would "probably hold up better and perform very well for it's size" when compared to the Kioti. I am simply stating the specs and facts to answer the original posters question. That question is obviously answered now and without any help from your posts...

 

[DiezNutz]

you are the one who started p!issing on the "other" tractor...
I can't leave a bunch of Kubota owners to give their opinions of Kioti...

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a duly-appointed member of the Kubota forum police.
You sure are sensitive about your orange tractor.

Maybe those more expensive, lower performing Kubota glasses don't see that. :laughing:

If you're actually reading what you're writing, comments like that are worse than anything I said. Add to that, where you were when you said them.

 

[art]

So is that 11.2 GPM hydraulic output the "high output" pump or is there an optional system? Because even the non-commercial CUT 27hp CK27 (12.7 GPM) is higher...

Agreed, that is a very good lift capacity for that size machine. What size bucket comes on the tractor?

Are they also aware that commercial users are harder on their machines which means they are more likely to break so that's why they CUT THE WARRANTY IN HALF when purchased as a commercial customer? I know my warranty doesn't change when the use of the machine does.
Our warranty is less because you don't need more. :laughing: Yeah right! Anyone who buys that would probably buy ocean-front property in Wyoming too.

.

So if the Kubota has a smaller pump then it must lift a lot less then the ck27, uh? Now I wonder who designed that system? Oh well why run a great big pump burning fuel taking horsepower away from other areas when it doesn't give you anything back?

The B-26 comes with a 60 or 66" wide front bucket although we have a B-20 out with a 72" for lighter mulch loads.

I haven't seen to many pieces of equipment that don't change the warrantee depending on the type of use. I find that you never know where your worst customer might come from. I feel quite safe with many of our commercial accounts as users, the operators are quite often quite knowledgeable in the proper operation of equipment and are great overall on the service. They do make a mistake from time to time but the most are quite good with the equipment and some I rate at being able to get 101% out of a tractor and not destroy it.

A lousy dealer can make the best warrantee worthless!

 

[Dmace]

So if the Kubota has a smaller pump then it must lift a lot less then the ck27, uh? Now I wonder who designed that system? Oh well why run a great big pump burning fuel taking horsepower away from other areas when it doesn't give you anything back?

For a tractor dealer, you seem to know very little about hydraulics...
The larger pump has little to do with lift capacity, that is solely decided on by the hydraulic pressure, size of the lift cylinders and the design/geometry of the loader arms. What the larger pump will do is allow faster cycle times and allow you to do multiple operations at once easier. For example, curling and lifting the loader at the same time or using the power steering to turn as you are lifting or dumping the bucket.

I haven't seen to many pieces of equipment that don't change the warrantee depending on the type of use.

In my opinion, that certainly doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

 

[art]

For a tractor dealer, you seem to know very little about hydraulics...
The larger pump has little to do with lift capacity, that is solely decided on by the hydraulic pressure, size of the lift cylinders and the design/geometry of the loader arms. What the larger pump will do is allow faster cycle times and allow you to do multiple operations at once easier. For example, curling and lifting the loader at the same time or using the power steering to turn as you are lifting or dumping the bucket.

In my opinion, that certainly doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I guess you do realize the difference in design of the tractors given that the Kubota lifts more does it quicker and all with a smaller pump!!!! I'm glad you were able to see and know the difference too! Running larger hydraulic pumps then needed takes power, having tractors with weight in the wrong place all consume extra fuel and wear and tear on additional parts.

Some pay when they buy a tractor, and some just keep on paying long after the initial purchase!~

 

[Dmace]

I guess you do realize the difference in design of the tractors given that the Kubota lifts more does it quicker and all with a smaller pump!!!! I'm glad you were able to see and know the difference too! Running larger hydraulic pumps then needed takes power, having tractors with weight in the wrong place all consume extra fuel and wear and tear on additional parts.

Some pay when they buy a tractor, and some just keep on paying long after the initial purchase!~

I'd like to see what the cycle time would be while performing two loader functions at once. I operated a few older Kubota's and one Deere and never could get either to lift and curl a load at the same time without almost coming to a dead stop. I do it regularly now without any difference in speed or power and even while driving into the pile with an HST. That's when the extra pump comes in handy but there's no spec for that. Plus when running additional hydraulics (log splitter, top-n-tilt cylinder, etc...) that extra pump will be worthwhile too!
Pumps too big, weight in the wrong place, smaller is better...
You have an excuse for everything Kubota falls behind in. :laughing: