Ballast L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on

[Gary Fowler]

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Do not widen the front wheel stance. This puts too much strain on 4wd axle components.

QUOTE]
I hear this all the time but defy anyone to show me how turning the wheels around puts any more stress on the axle as the mounting bolts are still the same distance from the axles hub. The rims are cupped with more cup to one side. In the narrow position the rim is cupped to inside toward the tractor. By turning the rim around so the tires are wider, It simple reverses the stresses. You have a lever with the rim offset and it is either pushing up or pushing down but the same forces are applied no more and no less. The only thing that it will stress more is the steering linkage since the tires are wider apart and the steering linkage hasn't changed, it takes a bit more force to turn them but it shouldn't be enough to damage your steering. Front tires should be same spacing as rear for no other reason than safety. Where the front tracks so should the rear.

 

[C4Ranch]

I found out real quick that 1.5k lbs of deer corn on forks with only a PHD on the 3pt and loaded tires wasn't enough ballast. Didn't tip but had zero traction on the rear tires and couldn't back up in 2wd. I could have put it in 4wd but that would be ignoring the warning signs of too much weight.

 

[yamrpt]

Front tires max psi is 45, rear not listed on tire but internet says 20 max.
Rear tires at max width, front look same. Pressure stems all facing outward.

I had a few dozen hours with an old mitsubishi before getting this. A 25ish year old tractor with a loader, 6ft hoe, and diamond turfs. This thing had super spongy front tires, like mash mellows. But when you suddenly stopped the loader on this, it would not bounce the tractor like it does on the new one. Granted the bucket on that thing couldn't be much more than 150lbs.. But it was perfectly balanced, but had no ROPS, and too far gone in condition.

Anyhow. I can tell what this thing needs is the weight on 3pt farther back. Like a box blade. The ballast box is perfect for rear traction, but the whole setup is not balanced enough for me to feel comfortable buzzing around with a bucketful.

I am the 4th owner of this tractor after it went though some dealers. The guy who originally bought it had a tall skid steer bucket and the smaller 500lb ballast box. He was just doing snow, and only put 50 hrs on it. I think I see why now..
And where I use it, everything has a slight grade, so I always keep bucket low, not even near hood line.

 

[RaydaKub]

I hear this all the time but defy anyone to show me how turning the wheels around puts any more stress on the axle as the mounting bolts are still the same distance from the axles hub. The rims are cupped with more cup to one side. In the narrow position the rim is cupped to inside toward the tractor. By turning the rim around so the tires are wider, It simple reverses the stresses.

I don't think anybody is arguing about reversing the wheels for the extra distance the rim provides. This would be within the design spec of the machine. Having them track with the rears makes sense up to a certain point. The extra stress is from the leverage that adding a spacer to them will cause.

Front tire spacing WILL help in stability and those saying that it doesn't because they swivel are making an untrue assumption. Yes they swivel on a center frame pin, BUT, they only a few inches in either direction till they bump the frame and then it becomes a solid unmovable axle. Raise the front off the ground with the FEL (dump the bucket fully so the bucket bottom is vertical, this gives you max lift height) and you can see how much they swivel and then hit the stop. This stop is a long way from maximum tip angle so front does provide stability.

Been around and around on this subject in multiple threads. I blatantly disagree; you are the one who is making an untrue assumption.
The front axle swivels and has a stop, yes. For simplicity, let's say that swivel is + or - 10 degrees (or 10 degrees up / down as measured on either side). That 10 degrees is not absolute to the ground, it is in respect to the tractor. Let's try your experiment. Park your tractor on a perfectly smooth 20 degree slope. At this point, your uphill rear wheel may be starting to feel a bit light. But your front axle is on the same 20 degree slope. You lift the front axle with your bucket and you will find that it still swivels by + or - 10 degrees. If this were not true, it would already have hit the stop at the 10 degree slope (which comically would lift the downhill side rear wheel 10 degrees off the ground). Just standing still on the 20 degree slope, the front axle is still at a perfect right angle to the tractor body and still has 10 degrees to go before the front end stop kicks in. You won't have any benefit to the stop until the body of the tractor is at 30 degrees (which means the rear wheel left the ground 10 degrees ago) and if it felt tippy before, you are probably already needing new drawers. No matter what the degree of the slope is, the stop will still require another 10 degrees before you hit it and the only way you hit that stop is if the angle of the body of the tractor is more than the angle that the front axle is sitting at. By definition, the back wheel is off the ground.
The only time the front axle is going to help on a roll over situation at all is if you have modified the whole axle to be like 3 times wider than the rear wheels. Then the rear wheel will stop at 30 degrees because you have an outrigger several feet down the hill from the tractor's position.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I don't think anybody is arguing about reversing the wheels for the extra distance the rim provides. This would be within the design spec of the machine. Having them track with the rears makes sense up to a certain point. The extra stress is from the leverage that adding a spacer to them will cause.


Been around and around on this subject in multiple threads. I blatantly disagree; you are the one who is making an untrue assumption.
The front axle swivels and has a stop, yes. For simplicity, let's say that swivel is + or - 10 degrees (or 10 degrees up / down as measured on either side). That 10 degrees is not absolute to the ground, it is in respect to the tractor. Let's try your experiment. Park your tractor on a perfectly smooth 20 degree slope. At this point, your uphill rear wheel may be starting to feel a bit light. But your front axle is on the same 20 degree slope. You lift the front axle with your bucket and you will find that it still swivels by + or - 10 degrees. If this were not true, it would already have hit the stop at the 10 degree slope (which comically would lift the downhill side rear wheel 10 degrees off the ground). Just standing still on the 20 degree slope, the front axle is still at a perfect right angle to the tractor body and still has 10 degrees to go before the front end stop kicks in. You won't have any benefit to the stop until the body of the tractor is at 30 degrees (which means the rear wheel left the ground 10 degrees ago) and if it felt tippy before, you are probably already needing new drawers. No matter what the degree of the slope is, the stop will still require another 10 degrees before you hit it and the only way you hit that stop is if the angle of the body of the tractor is more than the angle that the front axle is sitting at. By definition, the back wheel is off the ground.
The only time the front axle is going to help on a roll over situation at all is if you have modified the whole axle to be like 3 times wider than the rear wheels. Then the rear wheel will stop at 30 degrees because you have an outrigger several feet down the hill from the tractor's position.

You could not be more wrong on this. The line of rotation of a tractor over turning runs from the outside edge of the rear tire to the outside edge of the front tire on the low side. As soon as the center of gravity of the tractor crosses this line the tractor over turns. This is the reason they no longer make tricycle front ends on new tractors. Please stop misdirecting newbees on this important safety issue.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't think anybody is arguing about reversing the wheels for the extra distance the rim provides. This would be within the design spec of the machine. Having them track with the rears makes sense up to a certain point. The extra stress is from the leverage that adding a spacer to them will cause.


Been around and around on this subject in multiple threads. I blatantly disagree; you are the one who is making an untrue assumption.
The front axle swivels and has a stop, yes. For simplicity, let's say that swivel is + or - 10 degrees (or 10 degrees up / down as measured on either side). That 10 degrees is not absolute to the ground, it is in respect to the tractor. Let's try your experiment. Park your tractor on a perfectly smooth 20 degree slope. At this point, your uphill rear wheel may be starting to feel a bit light. But your front axle is on the same 20 degree slope. You lift the front axle with your bucket and you will find that it still swivels by + or - 10 degrees. If this were not true, it would already have hit the stop at the 10 degree slope (which comically would lift the downhill side rear wheel 10 degrees off the ground). Just standing still on the 20 degree slope, the front axle is still at a perfect right angle to the tractor body and still has 10 degrees to go before the front end stop kicks in. You won't have any benefit to the stop until the body of the tractor is at 30 degrees (which means the rear wheel left the ground 10 degrees ago) and if it felt tippy before, you are probably already needing new drawers. No matter what the degree of the slope is, the stop will still require another 10 degrees before you hit it and the only way you hit that stop is if the angle of the body of the tractor is more than the angle that the front axle is sitting at. By definition, the back wheel is off the ground.
The only time the front axle is going to help on a roll over situation at all is if you have modified the whole axle to be like 3 times wider than the rear wheels. Then the rear wheel will stop at 30 degrees because you have an outrigger several feet down the hill from the tractor's position.

I agree that if you are already on a 45 + degree slope, the front isn't going to help much in preventing a rollover but then who is stupid enough to run sideways on a 30 degree slope. Barring holes, bumps etc that contribute kinetic force to the roll, your tractor wont roll till past 45 degrees so the front will help prevent a turn over. I am speaking from experience on this having ran a couple of tractors off top of pond dams when building levees and spreading the dirt. One was a 120 HP Ford with dual rear wheels and water in all tires including front. When the front wheels slide off the top of a 4 foot high levee, I had a 5 yard skip pan hooked behind me and all I could do was steer down hill as fast as possible and the low side front tire hit and held the tractor from rolling while the off side was a couple feet in the air.
Your theory says that a narrow front end (tricycle type) wont roll any faster than a wide front end and that is about as much bunk as your statement about wider front tires are no better than narrow.

I would say that unless you have had experience in this, quit making erroneous statements or outright lies.

 

[jeff9366]

Now, girls......

Give your opinion. Let OP sort out opinions in posts.

We need light here, not heat.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Just trying to add some light.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Just trying to add some light.

Ok, I will add some light to the tilt equation. I just measured my stop limits on my tractors and they tilt exactly 5 degrees before hitting the stop so any more tilt than that and one wheel will start to support the tractor to help prevent roll over.
I wont sit by and let some amateur make erroneous statements that go down eventually on TBN as fact repeated by all who don't know different.
With regard to front and rear spacers, I would have to assume (not having tested them) that it would indeed put more stress on the axle and the way some of these small CUT's are built with aluminum housings, it might be enough to break the housing during rough operation. REAL TRACTORS wont be made of cast aluminum like some of the glorified lawn mowers called tractors. Weight is your friend on a tractor

 

[WaxMan]

I'm not sure what to do here. I'm not a tractor veteran.

I have a 3540 cab 724 QA FEL HD bucket R4's and 1000lb ballast box filled w/ sand. Front/back tires 42psi/16psi
Driving this around with just the loader on and no bucket, it feels solid. Anything added onto 3point and it feels perfectly solid.
But with the bucket on it feels like too much weight is forward, even with no material. I hate the feeling of having it on 3 wheels.

I was hoping their own ballast box would work perfect here since I do use it in the woods, and the only heavy 3 point attch I've been considering is a finish mower that's 84" and 900lbs. But that's going to make this thing a bus, and it won't hold up well backing into something.
The only other tractor changes I had been thinking of were turf tires and (if they even make it), front wheel spacers. I know turf's are lower, but not sure how much that'll help here.

Not sure if I'm reading this right , Sorry if I'm not , I Kinda think your playing us, nothing in the bucket , come on really?