Ballast L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on

   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #51  
Load the tires...
Also, that 1000# counter weight you have out back...
How far out back does it go?
If you could set it back another 12" of so that would counter your front end...
I run a 550# box blade on the back of my New Holland...
With loaded tires I am very stable...
If I leave the rear finish mower on it places more weight further back of the tractor...
Just a thought...
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #52  
Here are the 3 items I use for ballast with my L3940 and FEL. Ballast box @ 1250#, box blade @ 1150#, pulverizer @ 925#. Each do a fine job of counter balance and adding traction, and I DO NOT have loaded tires, nor will I on this tractor. The ballast box is nice because it is compact, so I don't have to look over my shoulder as much to make sure I do not accidently swing into things. I once drove into a ditch to retrieve a large rock for my neighbors 'prized' rock garden. Too big for his Teremite to get. Little uneasy sitting on the seat, but by taking it slow, and using a little common sense, and nearly killing my neighbor as he made one last push to roll the rock into the bucket, the rock and Kubota made it out just fine. Take it slow and learn your limits, just takes time. Good luck! Philip.
 

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   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #53  
Can't say I agree with that...backhoes are heavy, but the boom really ups the center of gravity.

I tend to agree with Roy. Of course, I'm comparing different machines, but my B21 TLB doesn't "feel" all that stable on slopes. I've assumed (yeah, I know), it's due to the backhoe being high relative to the rest of the tractor. Maybe someday I'll take it off and see how it feels.
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #54  
So Roy, are you saying the tractor is less stable with the hoe than without? We have an 8' hoe (1,100 lbs) and its always on the tractor, except in winter, then its the 6' blower. I haven't noticed a difference in stability.

Yes I do, depending on conditions.
If one is on a slope...even a relatively minor slope (less then 10 degrees), you sure feel the backhoe back there. Running across a minor down-slope rut or hole could be an interesting experience.
Now, as I wrote, I'm basing this on my experience operating a Ford Backhoe, not a tractor with a backhoe implement.

In my experience, the safest counterweight is that ballast box mounted on the 3PH and carried low (don't have to have that 3PH fully raised).
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on
  • Thread Starter
#55  
Here are the 3 items I use for ballast with my L3940 and FEL. Ballast box @ 1250#, box blade @ 1150#, pulverizer @ 925#. Each do a fine job of counter balance and adding traction, and I DO NOT have loaded tires, nor will I on this tractor. The ballast box is nice because it is compact, so I don't have to look over my shoulder as much to make sure I do not accidently swing into things. I once drove into a ditch to retrieve a large rock for my neighbors 'prized' rock garden. Too big for his Teremite to get. Little uneasy sitting on the seat, but by taking it slow, and using a little common sense, and nearly killing my neighbor as he made one last push to roll the rock into the bucket, the rock and Kubota made it out just fine. Take it slow and learn your limits, just takes time. Good luck! Philip.

Notice in 2nd pic that your lower links are extended. Can you work with them out? That might work for me if so..
Oh and you know what the d ring bolted on your draw bar is called? The dealer couldn't find me it.
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #56  
After reading all the comments, most of them are accurate (a few inaccurate statements). First thing you need to do is widen the stance of the wheels to the widest setting possible for loader work especially if working on hills. Try to make the fronts the same as the rears (outside tire measurement on each wheel). After the tires are widened, have liquid ballast installed in the rear tires. Most CUT mfg. don't recommend loading the fronts. Front tire spacing WILL help in stability and those saying that it doesn't because they swivel are making an untrue assumption. Yes they swivel on a center frame pin, BUT, they only a few inches in either direction till they bump the frame and then it becomes a solid unmovable axle. Raise the front off the ground with the FEL (dump the bucket fully so the bucket bottom is vertical, this gives you max lift height) and you can see how much they swivel and then hit the stop. This stop is a long way from maximum tip angle so front does provide stability.
As for loading the tires, pick your material, Rimguard, water with methanol, water with antifreeze or if in mild climate like I am just plain water. Having liquid ballast in the rear tires makes the tractor much more stable. Remember move the tires out to max width prior to filling because on most tractors to do this you have to swap tires side to side ( left to the right side and vice versa).

You said you have rear counterweight of more than 1000# so I don't think you need any more. I think your biggest problem is lack of experience with the loader as there is no way a FEL bucket should make the tractor feel unstable. You just need to get the feel of the tractor. ONE way to check out the stability is to raise the bucket about a foot off the ground and while on level ground run the ground speed up to lets say about 5 MPH and then jam on both brakes so the rear tires are skidding. If the bucket doesn't tip to the ground, you are not unstable. You can do the same thing with a full bucket but not travel but like a slow walking speed and hit the brakes, if the rear wheels don't come off the ground, you aren't overloaded. Much or bad experience comes from operations that exceed the capacity. When you are near capacity for tipping forward as described above, you have to be really careful and go very slow especially on any slope. IT doesn't take much to tip your tractor when traveling side to side on a slope and even less if attempting a turn on a slope at high speed with a loaded bucket. Always travel with a loaded bucket just high enough to clear obstacles and with one hand always on the FEL joystick and if you feel you are toppling, drop the load quickly. This is not meant to scare you but advise you on how to adjust to a sometimes unpleasant situation.
Summary or my long winded post:
1. Widen wheels (if you don't know how, get the dealer to do it for you and then liquid ballast them for you)
2. Ballast the tires
3. Put a heavy counter weight on the 3 point hitch. I use my 1500# bush hog which sticks WAY back behind me so I get maximum counter weight for my 3500# lift capacity but it is long and takes lots of room to maneuver.
4. Finally get the feel of your tractors capacity by operating it. The more you operate it the better you will feel on it.

I went from having a small 45HP open station tractor that I basically straddled the frame so I sat close to the ground to my 70HP Utility tractor with cab that the operators platform is over chest high so I am really up in the air. It takes some getting used to, but once you run the tractor for a few days, it gets smaller and smaller.

Nicely comprehensive post Gary!

To reiterate one thing Gary didn't specifically say Dont Load you Front tires, it's not helpful, and can add to front endwearout.

And also, given that my little B2320 likes the 650-700# of my slightly overfilled Bb better for loader work, you may want to fill your BB a little closer to 3/4 (0.75%) of your 3-point hitch's capability will help you too.

We used old steel brake disks to increase the desnity of ours over that of plain concrete.

Go Slow, Stay Low!
Thomas
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #57  
Notice in 2nd pic that your lower links are extended. Can you work with them out? That might work for me if so..

OK, that is a very poor/bad example by me. I hooked that up for a quick picture only. I should have set ballast box on ground, backed up, and locked the end links. I/you should always operate with the end links closed. Appoligies.

Oh and you know what the d ring bolted on your draw bar is called? The dealer couldn't find me it.

Yes, it is called a D ring. This is how I tie my tractor down to my trailer. It is a piece of flat steel that I drilled holes in to mount to my oem drawbar, then I welded a D ring to it.

Philip
 

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   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #58  
I have a Case 580k. When I drive it on even the slightest slope it feels unnatural. For the fist few minutes I will lean to try and offset the weight. Of course my body weight will do nothing when talking about equipment weighing well over 10k. The fact is that I sit higher on my Case so when the tractor leans it's magnified more than if the seat was lower and having the cab around me gives the impression that there is more mass up high than there really is. The fact is that just because my body is telling me that we (the tractor and I) are close to tipping in reality one's mind often plays tricks until we train it. Seat time is the only way to train your brain to understand what is safe and what is not. With my 4240 I have done things that lifted one of the rear tires off of the ground. But because I sit lower and it's open station (ROPS is behind me out of sight) it feels more stable. I'm careful to keep the FEL level within reach whenever I might be doing something that could cause the tractor to lean. The bucket to the ground quickly can stop a lot of rolls before they happen if done quick enough.
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #59  
I have a Case 580k. When I drive it on even the slightest slope it feels unnatural. For the fist few minutes I will lean to try and offset the weight. Of course my body weight will do nothing when talking about equipment weighing well over 10k. The fact is that I sit higher on my Case so when the tractor leans it's magnified more than if the seat was lower and having the cab around me gives the impression that there is more mass up high than there really is. The fact is that just because my body is telling me that we (the tractor and I) are close to tipping in reality one's mind often plays tricks until we train it. Seat time is the only way to train your brain to understand what is safe and what is not. With my 4240 I have done things that lifted one of the rear tires off of the ground. But because I sit lower and it's open station (ROPS is behind me out of sight) it feels more stable. I'm careful to keep the FEL level within reach whenever I might be doing something that could cause the tractor to lean. The bucket to the ground quickly can stop a lot of rolls before they happen if done quick enough.

This happened to me last night as I was working among trees on a slope of ~ 20 - 25 degrees and carrying a load of firewood in the 550# grapple bucket. It was unnerving and I also found myself leaning to one side, as a habit I guess, from using my garden tractor. I do believe one of the rear wheels lifted a bit as I was just crawling along. I carefully maneuvered into a downhill position by moving forward and backwards a couple times, put the loader as low as I could and lowered the 710# box blade about half way to lower the center of gravity. Was also setting on a dense leave bed as this area of the property is left totally natural.

When I was backing out, straight up the incline this time, I had to use differential lock and then 4WD to get out of there.
 
   / L series doesn't feel safe with bucket on #60  
In response to some of the tit for tat in the thread earlier:

-Front wheel spacing isn't that important once you get past a narrow front end/tricycle tractor. The reason is an inexperienced operator shouldn't be operating your tractor such that the rear tires are coming off the ground, ever! The front axle can only catch you from tipping at low speeds. If the loader is raised high with a load when the rear comes up or you are moving at any speed you will free fall until you hit the stop and most of the time keep going. There are some safety video's floating around showing this. Neighbour rolled his L3710 while parked just lifting the loader, while it was in the air the downhill front tire lost its bead and went flat, over the tractor went. Not a big hill either.

-Kubota on the L series warns against reversing the rims on the front axle. Moving them out increases the leverage on the bearings and castings. There have been lots of pics over the years on here of the results and busted components. I've replaced all the bearings and seals on one side of my L5030 already, they aren't giant, these are not designed for heavy eccentric loading of offset rims. If you don't have a loader you're probably fine to dish out and add spacers but Kubota puts very heavy and strong loaders on there.

-If you don't believe in this effect look up the dexter axle recall. RV manufacturer put the wrong offset rim on their axles from dexter resulting in axle failures and massive recall. Bankrupted the RV company, Dexter was nice enough to cut deals with the owners to get a replacement axle.
 

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