L2800-L3400 PTO Making the right choice

[8226hamer]

I was looking in the warranty guide that came with my tractor and I still can't understand why that this repair that has been done twice to this tractor and was covered under the bacic warranty which is for a period of 24 month or 1500 hour would not be still be covered under the powertrain warranty. The warranty guide states what is covered in powertrain warranty

Driveline: 4 wheel drive front axle assembly, and all gears, seals, bearings, etc.,m contained within, clutch housing ( except clutch disc), transmission case, and rear axle housing and everything contained within, and pumps and valves associated with driveline operation.

The next section is Service Parts Warranty

Service parts are warranted for 90 days from date of purchase. However, if the part is installed on a unit which has more than 90 days remaining on the original warranty, the part is warranted for that remaining time. If the part was installed by an authorized Kubota dealer, the labor to replace that part is also included. Replacement batteries have warranty periods ranging from 18 months to 36 months, on a pro-rated basis

The locking cams are contained within the transmission. I don't consider them clutch disc. I associate clutch discs with a manual gear driven transmission and they are prone to wear and I can see why they would not be covered. Pto clutch cams have no lining to wear and should not be prone to wear, at least on a tractor with 221 hours and a little over 25 hours of PTO use. I know that warranty information can be interupted different ways, by the way I see it, these locking cams should be covered for 36 months or 3000 hours. The L2800's that have a serial number later than 57745 were fitted with a new designed locking cam. The first design were no good as my tractor came out with the old style cams and did not last 40 hours of use. You would think that with Kubota knowing these tractors had problems would be a little generous it taking care of this problem, especialy since the new design didn't last me a whole lot longer than the first ones.

Another question. Their service parts warranty states a 90 day warranty for parts and labor if they were installed by an authorized dealer. Should my new cams be covered for 90 days? The way I see it they should, and this would give me a little more safe time. June, 4 my basic warranty expires.

When I first ask the service manager about this repair being covered under the powertrain warranty, I thought he was joking when he said it might be, but I may have to get a lawyer to prove it, I guess he was serious. The more I think about it, it may be good advise.

 

[ccsial]

. If this were my tractor I would attempt to eliminate the internal over-running clutch, possibly by welding or locking together using pins etc. I have used a tractor with no over-running clutch for many years, and it is a problem only with my rotary brush cutter.

This would be fine if you could live without being able to disengage the PTO since the ORC and engage clutch are one in the same.

 

[ccsial]

Am i understanding this correctly, that this only applies to tractors with HST. I believe they are the only ones with an overrunning clutch?

You are correct. I would have preferred a gear tractor but the L3400 does not have enough reverse speeds for snow blowing. Now that I have the HST though, I really do like it.

 

[MDM]

The kit you are talking about is listed in the parts book as starting with S/N 57745 and up. My tractor is 58693. I have never heard the ratcheting sound on this tractor. Does this realy fix the problem? I have 13 months left of the full warranty, this year we have plenty of rain so the tractor will get a good workout cutting grass (and weeds).

It is my understanding that if you push in the clutch and disengage the PTO at the same time, you will not hear the OR clutch. I assume this is what everyone is doing that say they have never heard the chatter. If you push in the clutch while an implement is running, you will hear it. I got an external OR clutch for those times I forget to clutch/disengage at the same time. It helps, but doesn't completly stop the internal OR clutch completly. I never hear it either if I use the disengage/clutch method.

 

[JC-jetro]

Just FYI,

A clutch is a device you can transfer torque from one shaft to another while one or both shafts are turning. Clutch facilitates engagement with a bit of wear without damage to components( i.e. same as brake pads that are consumed while applying break). There always is a clutch to transfer engine torque to transmission input shaft whether you have gear tranny or HST tranny. In case of HST the input shaft in turn will operate a hydraulic pump, which the output (oil flow/pressure) is piped to a hydraulic motor to turn your wheels with some mechanical range designed in to the HST system.

The Kubota's so called PTO clutch/ coupling ( it is neither a good clutch nor is a good coupler). Couplers and clutches are two completely different concepts. Kubota's attempt to use the device pictured earlier as clutch, coupler and on top of it over running clutch (shape of the cam) is at best a very poor compromise.

 

[8226hamer]

Is this system only used with the HST L2800-L3400 series of tractors that Kubota makes? What about other brands of tractors ie. Kioti, New Holland, John Deere, does any of their tractors use this type of PTO system. I have never owned or opperated anything but Kubota. I guess that question should be asked on the other brands of tractor forums this site has. I have never seen a method of using a cable to be used as a linkage to engage or disengage a PTO system other than the basic L series of tractors Kubota makes. Are there others?

 

[8226hamer]

When I think of getting wrong tractor for the application I think of size, weight, HP, 4WD, but never thought of PTO reliability.

I think every tractor that has a PTO should be able to handle any use (not abuse) that it is put to. Roto-tilling is not cruel and unusual pusnishment for a PTO in my opinion, even though it is tougher than mowing.

I really like my L3400 and hope that the PTO holds up to my mowing and snow blowing use. This is a problem that Kubota should have never let occur even on an economy tractor. The PTO should be robust on any tractor. At least the over-riding clutch should have been separate and easy to replace.

I agree with you interputation of the wrong application as size, weight, HP, 4WD. In the information phamplet Kubota puts out for the L2800-L3400 series it list a roto tiller as an accessory for these tractor. So having the Division field rep. to tell me this I believe was a load of BS and his easy way out for a poor designed PTO system.

When I chose this series tractor, I was told at my dealer that it just didn't have all the" bells and whistles" and comfort as the Grand L series, but not a reliable PTO system as I have experienced

 

[JC-jetro]

I agree with you interputation of the wrong application as size, weight, HP, 4WD. In the information phamplet Kubota puts out for the L2800-L3400 series it list a roto tiller as an accessory for these tractor. So having the Division field rep. to tell me this I believe was a load of BS and his easy way out for a poor designed PTO system.

When I chose this series tractor, I was told at my dealer that it just didn't have all the" bells and whistles" and comfort as the Grand L series, but not a reliable PTO system as I have experienced

I wished I had the benefit of having PTO parts breakdown and diagram for Kubota to be more objective but below you see a sample of Ford PTO design on 1000 series. Remember that we're actually talking Shibaura,another Japanese manufacturer.

Notice #4 coupling that is That is coupled to #5 PTO Countershaft assembly. #8 shows one way clutch assembly that engage and disengages by the action of PTO lever and a sliding gear. The torque is distributed equally to the ratchet and coupler is made very stout. even with this system if your rotary implement comes to an abrupt stop there is potential for damage. Slip clutch and shear pin should take care of that. what you see below is simple , effective and beefy enough to take some punishment unlike what the original poster experienced. I have seen few different flavors in the design but concept is the same with slight variation of where the one way clutch and coupler is located in the transmission of rear differential. Although I have not done it before but I think in case of design below the ORC can be taken out and replace from the rear without splitting the tractor.

 

[swampvol]

So..are we supposed to push the clutch and disengage the pto simultaneously?

I fully pushed in the clutch first, then disengaged the pto...is this wrong???

 

[ccsial]

So..are we supposed to push the clutch and disengage the pto simultaneously?

I fully pushed in the clutch first, then disengaged the pto...is this wrong???

If you push in the clutch and disengage at the same time the clutch will spend less time ratcheting. This may increase life, anyway, it sure sounds better.