L35 or L4610???

[jedens]

I've been comparing tractors for quite a while. I'm looking for a good all-around utility tractor to clear dead and live trees, pull/dig stumps, mow, do general landscaping, put in a long driveway, clear snow, etc. on 35 acres that are at 7400 ft elevation in Colorado. I definitely want to get a FEL and backhoe from the start. I've looked at the JD 4710 with the 460 FEL and the 48 backhoe but I don't like the way the backhoe hydraulics work because they flow through the tractor instead of being self contained. I've looked at the L4610 and it appears to be comparable in price and has a little better specs on the FEL. I've looked at the L48 but it looks like too much tractor and would be less maneuverable and more expensive. I've also looked at the L35 and while it is rated quite a bit lower on gross HP and PTO HP than the L4610, the FEL specs look almost as good and the backhoe looks better than the L4560 backhoe for the L4610. The L35 with FEL and backhoe also appears to be a little less expensive than an L4610 with an LA852 FEL and L4560 backhoe. The only drawback seems to be that the PTO HP on the L35 is 26 HP as compared to 40.5 on the L4610. How big of an issue is that if what I'm going to use the PTO for is mainly mowing, tilling, post hole digging, and box blading? Any thoughts on the pros and cons of getting an L4610 over an L35 or vice versa would be appreciated.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Jedens, if a lot of backhoe is a must, the L35 can't be beat. (except by the L48 which I have) If a backhoe and a lot of loader work is needed, the L4610 HST would be perfect. (as would the L48 since it to is also HST). If you know what you want to run PTO wise, check the implement requirements, that will tell you a lot. You will find many things will run with 26 PTO hp just fine. Rat...

 

[glennmac]

Joe, I'd like to re-emphasize what you may know: as Rat points out, the L35 is not hydro. For the jobs you mention other than the backhoeing, most people much prefer hydro.

Another consideration: mowing, tilling, post hole digging, and boxblading will all require you to remove the hoe and use the 3ph. I am not familiar with TLB's (the L35 and L48), so I don't know how conveniently you can get the hoe on and off. As between the JD hoe and the hoes you might put on a 4610 (Bradco, Kubota or Woods), I believe JD has far and away the fastest connection system.

The issue of self-contained hydraulics vs. sharing the tractor hydraulics has been discussed and debated here many times. You can use the search function. There are supposed pluses and minuses both ways. My personal conclusion is that if the tractor has sufficient hydraulic flow to drive the hoe, that is the simpler, more efficient and cheaper alternative.

 

[jedens]

Thanks Rat and Glennmac for the quick responses. I've been looking at some of the previous posts about GST vs. HST and it does appear that the HST would be nice. I wonder why both the L21 and the L48 have HST but the L35 doesn't??

 

[Tags]

Jedens,
I owned an L35 and I have to say it is a machine that just won't quit!I'm not real familliar w/the 4610 but from reading posts on this site guys love em',as far as removing and installing the hoe,it's a snap and it takes longer to install the three point hitch arms than it does to remove the hoe.The big advantage to the B21,L35,and L48 is that the loader and hoe are integrated into the machines frame work,which ends up being a little more bulletproof compared to adding a loader or hoe as an "afterthought".I also used most of those implements you said you would use and never had a problem of not enough power,if you are going to do serious loader and hoe work I would go with the L35,the best thing to do would be to try to rent a 4610w/loader&hoe then rent an L35 and see which one fits you and your needs better.

 

[Carl_NH]

Joe,

I see you already have a AC so if you keep this for the 3PTH type tasks - box blade and grading, then there are fewer changes of the BH. Changing the BH on the L35 is easy - takes a few minutes once you get the hang of it. Attaching the 3 PTH arms takes longer.

In either case the L4610 with BH and subframe will still require removal and install of 3PTH arms, and I don't beleive the RR of the BH is as easy on this setup. In addition, you have a sep seat on the BH and the overall length tend to be a bit longer than the L35 combination unit. This is imp if you are traversing tight areas etc.

Regarding the HST vs GST only on the L35, I have no good explanation, however, Kubota sticks with what works in the industrial arena, and the GST works well. The other comments re: using the HST is easier, as I can move the unit when digging/trenching w/o changing the seat position, just raise the stabilzers, reach around and push the fwd/rev foot pedal. I think the L35 can do this but not sure.

Since you have rocks and tree stumps, check out the Grd clearance with the subframe vs the std grd clearance on the L35. This is imp when doing rock work, navigating stumpy areas, also look at the under side protection offered by both against stuff getting jammed into the bottom side - can make a mess quickly.

Regading mowers you have only a RMM option on both units since the subframe prevents a MMM on the 4610 from what I recall.

If you can get a ride on each one, setup the way you want that's probably the best test.

Carl

 

[rbargeron]

Hi Joe - you've definitely been doing your homework. The L35 and L4610 are both great machines - but are quite different. How much of your land is open now? If you're mowing more than 1 or 2 acres, it's nice to have a removeable FEL . But if most of the land is undeveloped the all-around ruggedness of the L35 might serve you better.

For doing major earthwork - putting in roads, taking out stumps and rocks, preparing building sites, etc. - power, weight and strength rule. There's truth in the saying that, except on a developed site, there's no such thing as too much tractor.

Owning an L48 for a few years might make economic sense. Then, when all the serious earthwork is under control, maybe switch to something smaller. Except for having your money tied up, the unrecoverable cost of ownership of any Kubota model is very low.

The great part is - whichever way you go will be good ! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[hayden]

Keep in mind that the L35 and L48 both use the tractor hydraulics to power the BH, just like the JD, If that's a reason to reject the JD, wouldn't is also be cause to reject the L35 and L48?

Personally, I woudl reject the L35 because it doesn't have HST, and ignore how the BH is powered. I think you will find they all work just fine.

 

[jedens]

Tags,
Thanks for the info. It sounds like the L35 has been a good machine for you. Did you ever wish you could remove the FEL?
Joe

 

[jedens]

Hi Carl,
Your point about ground clearance is a great one that I hadn't thought of. It looks like the L4610 has a couple of inches more ground clearance than the L35. I suppose I could increase it on either machine with larger tires. Thanks again for the info!
Joe

 

[jedens]

Rbargeron,
Your point about doing much mowing without a FEL is a good thought that I hadn't considered. With much mowing I would think it would be nice for visibility and maneuverability to take the FEL off. I'm getting lots of info that I wouldn't have considered by myself. This forum is great for getting up the learning curve fast and learning from other people's experiences. Thanks to all!
Joe

 

[jedens]

Hi Hayden,
I didn't realize that the L35 backhoe used the same hydraulics as the tractor, like the JD does. My thinking on this was if I somehow blew something on the backhoe hydraulics I wouldn't be sending debris through the hydraulic system to the tractor. Maybe this is something that couldn't happen.
The HST issue is something that I thinking about. I've driven an HST but not a GST so I need to go try the GST and see what it is like. Thanks!
Joe

 

[rbargeron]

I'm told the L48 uses 2 permanent pumps for the backhoe - and it is quite quick - someone can probably confirm this. I get the idea it is a lot faster than the L4560 - able to move more ways at the same time.

 

[DavidInNH]

The L48 backhoe runs off of the tractor hydraulics. There are 3 lines. I believe these are two feeds and a common return - I'll confirm tonight when I can look at the book. I have no experience with any backhoe besides this one, but it certainly feels fast. The contractor I bought it from said that that the backhoe speed was one of the primary reasons he bought it. BTW, the L48 has a huge 25.9 GPM hydraulic capacity.

-david

 

[JATO_RaT]

Dick, the L48 actualy has 3 pumps. The pump that is part of the engine system like many that run off a cam gear, crank gear etc. runs the rear implements, that is, it runs only the swing on the backhoe. If your not running a hoe then it runs the TNT or a hydraulic auger on a post hole digger etc. The other two pumps are mounted up front and one runs the power steering (which is excellent on the L48, I notice no difference with a 20+ cu. ft. of material in the bucket vs it being empty) the other pump which is the largest in terms of pump capacity runs the loader and the hoe as well as the 3 pt hitch. All in all the pump total is about 26 gpm at about 2700 PSI. The hydraulics on the L48 are very well laid out. I added TNT to my tractor in minutes (literally). The TNT ties into the quick connectors at the back and quickly comes apart if you want to put the hoe on. Its a snap and comes with 3 sets of remotes. A simple flip of a lever/valve at the back sets you up. Having HST as I have mentioned has been an absolute joy. While I still enjoy my gear drive (thats for all the die hard gear only folks), the HST is so much quicker with the loader work as well as hooking up 3 pt. implements. Rat...

 

[DavidInNH]

Rat - what is TNT?

Thanks,
David

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>what is TNT</font color=blue>

Hydraulic Top 'N Tilt on the 3-point hitch.

 

[Carl_NH]

Joe,

Check the ground clearance with the subframe on the L4610, you might find it's close to the L35, also the underside of the L35 is shielded. L35 is 12.6" and L4610 is 15" w/o subframe, which I think will drop it a few inches, but since I haven't seen this setup I can't tell you how much.

For your application I would think R4's are the choice with rocks and stumps so changing tires to increase the clearance - that's expensive for an 1" or so you might gain, plus wider higher tires could cause clearance issues to controls, fenders etc.

Your concern about getting debris into the system with a failed hose, well, thats a remote possiblity but usually they leak first, also the return oil is filtered.

Carl

 

[DavidInNH]

Thanks!

 

[Mike_A]

I just traded my JD4600 with a woods 9000 backhoe for a L48 TLB. The biggest reason for trading was the speed, reach and power the L48 has compared to the JD and woods hoe. My 4600 had 400 hours and about half of that was probably backhoe time. Only got the L48 delivered on the 16th of April and left that friday for a weeks vacation so have only got to use tractor for maybe and hour so just putting around. I did however test the L48 backhoe and my woods hoe side by side before trading and the L48 will dig about twice as fast as the JD and woods hoe. I also took tractor next door to a Building Supply company to see how much weight the front loader would actually lift. Tractor has quick attach front loader and with a set of Woods DF4200 forks lifted a pallet of 50 pound bags of calcium cloride. Started with 2,450 pounds and lifted to about 6' high with no problem. Kept adding 100 pounds at a time and at 2,750 pounds it kept going up but very slowley, at 2,850 pounds it refused to budge. Woods DF4200 forks weigh 372 pounds, quick attachment for loader weighs about 300 pounds, wooden pallet weight maybe 25 pounds. Tractor is listed to lift 3000 pounds at the pivot pins to full height. I stoped at about 6' high with all the lifts but the first 2,450 went up with ease and I believe I could of taken it to full height easily, thats a total of 3075 pounds. I waiting to do my first trenching job to really see how well the backhoe works but even with so little tractor time am very pleased and excited with this tractor. Learned a lot from this web site before trading and looking forward to more info in the future.