L4610 Vs. 4700

[JATO_RaT]

By the way Richard, here are some interesting tidbits:

HST sound level, 1200 to 1500 RPM, brake on, high range
JD 105 db
L4610 90 db

Power steering, loader with 800 kg or 1764 lbs, stationary

L4610 33 degs both L/R
JD 10 deg both L/R

Loader lift capacity to max height at pivot:
L4610 2470lbs
JD 2325lbs

Loader cycle time 2000 RPM, raise, dump, lower, rollback

L4610 38 sec.
JD 53 sec.

Drawbar load:

L4610 1430lbs
JD 1100lbs

3pt hitch lift capacity 24" behind lift point

L4610 2310lbs
JD 2500lbs

They have lots of data on the comparisions between these tractors. I would say the biggest advantage is the HST, after that its pretty minor stuff with perhaps the cycle times of the loader. JD has more hydraulic pump capacity but apparently does not utilize it for loader use as well.

 

[cowboydoc]

Rat,
Did he say how much of a rebate they would be offering? I think both hillbilly and myself may be interested if it's substantial. They had sent out a $900 rebate. Did he say if it was going to be bigger than that? I'm in warranty to March of 2002.

 

[HunterdonPaul]

The thing that really bothers me about the Kubota L's shouldn't (but it does). I really dislike the quality of the step to board the tractor. The step is made of very thin and insubstantial metal while the Deere's step is really rugged. Any comments here?

I realize that this is probably my problem, not Kubota's. Just a little input -

Regards

 

[JATO_RaT]

The good thing is that when you ineviatably bury the tractor, the step bends without taking the deck with it. Also, the entire deck, fenders, etc. on the Kubota have complete ISO mounting. Its all rubber isolated to help eliminate vibration and noise. It feels like its floating sometimes especially when compared to my 74 International which has a step/platform that must weigh 50 pounds.

As far as the rebate, I don't know what it is since when he mentioned it I kinda tuned out since I don't have anything anywheres near a warranty. He said they really want to get people to switch to the new series. Apparently the warranty claims have been pretty tough on them, he's a dealer and said the biggest problem he sees repeatedly was the aluminum shifting forks inside the transmission which require splitting the tractor. I don't know if that was HST, or gear drives.

 

[richh]

You really owe it to your self to spend some TIME on a HST if you can. Rent one for a weekend or a day and learn to use it! You will not belive the diff. by the end of the day you will never want a GST or any thing else with a cluch, well maybe a covett{simle} Rat speaks the truth, after spending weeks on this board and getting all of the advise one can get here I bought a 4610 GST, had it for a week and sent it back and got a HST, now have 120 hr. on it and love it. Any one that dose not like a HST needs more seat time!!!!!!
Rich

 

[PLOWER]

Rich,
I have a Hst right now on my JD4100, I also use to have one on my Lawn tractor. I don't need one any more its, not that I don't like it, it that I dont need it. I'm sure Cowboydoc can tell you, you don't always need a HST. Cliff

I'm moving up to a 5205!

 

[gordon]

I'm curious plower as to why you don't want an hst on the new tractor????

The step on my Kubota I smashed with a log. It kicked up from under the tire and bent it forward bad. The nice thing was that it was the weakest link. Just bent it back and all is well.

From what Hoss has posted the petals are set up better on the Deere. So you take it from there. All three of the top brands are all real close so anything you end up with should be a good deal. I'll stick with my kubota. More than happy after a hundred hours on the new one.

Gordon

 

[PLOWER]

The reason why I don't want a HST, is because I almost only have to drive in a strait line now mowing, not much loader work at my new place. So i don't want to spend the extra $$$$ for some thing not needed.

I'm moving up to a 5205!

 

[gordon]

Ok, let me bug you one last time. How much price difference are we talking about here on the john deeres? Roughly that is.

I think your going to miss the hst after having one. Time will tell on that one. But if you don't need it I guess you don't need it. So what do you think the final verdict is on the tractor and trans choice?

Thanks
Gordon

 

[PLOWER]

Gordon,
Im not sure how much it is on a Kubota, but I know its 1,300 more on a JD4700, that i'm cosidering. I am also considering the 5205 and that does not have the HST option. Cliff

I'm moving up to a 5205!

 

[glennmac]

The list price of a 4610 HST, $23,890, is $100 lower than the list price of a 4610 GST, $23,990. See http:// www.tractorsmart.com. So why get a Kubota GST?

 

[cowboydoc]

The hst is not all it's cracked up to be if you are doing alot of farm work. When I am planting, haying, harvesting, etc. I need to know exactly what my ground speed is. With a gear drive I can put my wife, friend, etc. on the tractor with no experience at all and put it in the gear I want them to rake or bale at and all they have to do is watch that nothing goes wrong. With gear drive I can put my daughter on the tractor and put it in the gear I want and I can go back and load bales, watch the implement being used etc. and all she has to do to go at the speed I want is to put the reverser in gear and go. With HST you can't do that. With the gear drive you look at your chart, put it in that gear and away you go. In less than a second I can shift gears if need be. The HST is too variable to farm with. With regards to loader work I know what gear I want when I am doing a job. With the power reverser I don't lose anything. Like many of you have said before and newbies to the hst have found out you can't just put the pedal down and dive into a load of dirt. If I put my tractor into low and 1st gear I can dive into the dirt and not have to feather around the hst pedal. Once I have my load I can shift if I need to in a flash or not. I have much more control with a gear drive tractor hands down.

Now with that said there is no way I would have anything but an hst on my lawnmower. If I had the best of both worlds it would also be nice to have an hst when putting in fence posts and a few other things.

I guess it comes down to what your needs are and what you are comfortable with. In no way though do I feel like the hst is "superior" to a gear drive tractor in all applications. If it was an option to have the hst or the gear drive even with no price difference I would take the gear drive tractor. Some of you have also mentioned ease of use and yes that's true, but if you know how to use a tractor it can be more of a hinderance than a help if you are doing farm work.

I'll agree that if you mow, do some loader work and other chores that you can't beat an hst. But if you need alot of variability and control of speed, conditions, etc. the hst is not the way to go.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Richard you were doing so well until this statement;
"I'll agree that if you mow, do some loader work and other chores that you can't beat an hst. But if you need alot of variability and control of speed, conditions, etc. the hst is not the way to go."

If you do a bunch of straight mowing as Cliff mentioned, a geared tractor is great, but for yard mowing or obstacle mowing a HST is not only infinitely variable, instantly reversable, and considerably more safe since even a young one need simply remove their foot from the pedal and it almost instantly stops and brake's. Many of the HST's have cruise control to lock in a speed, if the tractor loads up from a hill, deeper soil etc, a HST may slow down, but won't stall the engine. My gear driven will unless I select another speed or throw on some more logs. I agree with you and Cliff that a HST is not always the only way to go. Cliffs intended use sounds more ideally suited for a gear driven. The Kubota I use at work has a shuttle shift and that feature alone makes the forward to reverse transition so easy, I"m sure its much like the JD power reverser. For the typical user, especially someone new to tractors, the HST is great, in your case, I think you have the right tractor transmission, besides I think its the JD HST thats been having some problems so you've eliminated that concern. Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

Probably miswrote that statement as I completely agree with waht you posted. What I meant by that was that if you are lawn mowing, some loader work, etc. then yes hst is a good choice. But if you are farming at all a gear tractor is a good choice. Yes you are right about mowing etc. being very variable with the hst. Like I said for those kinds of things no way I would want a gear mower again. I just worded it wrong.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by cowboydoc on 10/10/01 01:44 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[PLOWER]

Okay you two lets not fight./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I love Hst for different things, and I think gear tractors are just as handy so it depends on the condition. I knew that cowboydoc would back me up, then rat caught on to what I was saying. Thanks,
Cliff

I'm moving up to a 4710 or 5205!

 

[gordon]

I'm biting my tounge./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I agree but I also disagree. Nuff said. There was a thread awhile back dealing with the same subject.

As long as your happy with what you buy that is all that matters. Reguardless of what flavor trans it has./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[PLOWER]

Gordon,
Exactly right, well said./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I'm moving up to a 4710 or 5205!

 

[richh]

Well Im glad you guys got it all figered out!!! Im not kicking it no more!/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Rich

 

[JATO_RaT]

I'm with you Rich, if you know what I mean. Rat...

 

[hayden]

I've browsed the Deere forum and it sure seems to me that there are some serious quality/design issues with the 4600/4700 tractors. Reports of hydro drive units seizing up and other issues.

Personally, I'd want to see the 4X10 models on the market for a few years with an established track record before I'd even remotely consider one.