landscape timber steps

[chuck172]

I'm thinking of installing 6x6 treated landscape timber steps for my front house access this spring. I need to rise about 5 feet.
Anyone have any experience building these? Any pro-con thoughts?

 

[sea2summit]

Long term anything that's wood and in the ground starts to rot, try to avoid it if I have another option.

 

[chuck172]

I'm 63, long term isn't that long a term. Should last a good 20 years right? I've seen retaining walls in the ground for a long time.

 

[hslogger]

You can do it, dunno what the longevity of the "landscape timber" will be in your region, depends on the mode of treatment and the raw material. RR tie might be another option. What might help your plan is to drill two holes in the top of each timber and pound a sixteen or eighteen inch piece of rebar down through it to help anchor it. Done that many years ago for others and worked fine. They are gonna rot out some day.

 

[oosik]

I've have RR ties in the ground for terracing. Been in the ground for 30+ years and still solid. Down side to using ties - on a good hot summer day they will still "ooze" creosote on their tops. Use RR ties and put a "cap" of untreated lumber on the tread and face. Easy to replace the "cap" when it deteriorates.

The length of time anything will last depends a lot on your weather conditions. I live in an area classified as semi-arid - so rotting is not a large concern.

 

[barko1]

Here in the very wet N GA mtns we had to replace a railroad tie retaining wall when it was 17. Used boulders this time. We have sandstone for our front entrance steps but 2' not 5'.

 

[EddieWalker]

Here in East TX, our soil is acidic red clay with just about every type of wood eating bug out there. Creosote soaked railroad ties will not last ten years on the ground in contact with the soil. The bugs get through the creosote and eat them out from the inside. You never even see it happening. Just all of a sudden, it collapses. The outside looks fine, but it's hollow in the inside. I've never seen them used for steps, just in landscaping and fence posts.

I believe one of the main reasons the railroad sets the ties on a bed of gravel is make sure they do not touch the dirt so they last longer. Water will drain through the rock, and bugs do not get to them from the soil.

 

[chuck172]

What would you guys recommend instead of timber steps. I'm seeing the light on wood vs. soil, what else can I do other than pouring concrete steps?

 

[/pine]

An alternative to cut out stringers is "ladder type" stringers they are easy to construct and offer a smoother overall look...but they do not work well with anything over 40" wide or so...(no center stringers)

 

[KennyG]

How much work do you want to do? Flagstone or paving blocks. Locate your risers and use concrete block. Then backfill behind them with stone/sand and lay the flagstone or pavers and face the concrete blocks with flagstone or pavers.

 

[chuck172]

I have a total rise of 5'3" from grade to the bottom of my concrete steps at the entrance of my house. The run can be anything less than about 25'/ I'm thinking maybe something like granite stone or prefabed concrete slabs 3' wide. I do have an old backhoe that can help. I ruled out landscape timbers, my first choice, due to the negative responses here. I didn't know they'd rot out.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I built a set of steps to run from a patio outside of my walkout basement, wrapping around a deck up to the first floor level. It turned out quite nice and was still nice 20 years later. I sold the place so I don't have pictures.

You start a the bottom, creating a C shape squared off of course. The legs go back into the grade further than the exposed step area. The place the next on those legs, dig into the grade for the next leg and keep going.

I made each run about 18 inches as I recall. I used long landscape nails, probably 10 inches by 3/8" . You can predrilled to make it easier.

Then compacted the area inside the step added sand and filled it in with the same patio stones I used for the patio.

You can vary the angle of the stairs runs to approximate a curve.

Oh yah, this was from treated 6x6 so each step was 5.5 inch rise so it made it a comfortable stairway.

It was beautiful and functional, but was a fair amount of hand digging.

 

[/pine]

For comfortable steps the rule of thumb is the width of one tread and height of two risers should not total less than 24 or more than 25 (IIRC)...

 

[GPintheMitten]

For comfortable steps the rule of thumb is the width of one tread and height of two risers should not total less than 24 or more than 25 (IIRC)...

Width? Do you mean depth?

 

[/pine]

Width? Do you mean depth?

Yes, was referring to rise/run (in inches)...sorry...

 

[GPintheMitten]

Ok so the rule of 24 would be pretty close to what I did
Twice the rise would be 11. 24 - 11 would be 13 for the run. This was many years ago and as try and picture it, it would be 5.5 " for the start of the run. Then I think I had a couple of courses of 6" patio blocks or.maybe a 6 and a 2. Hard to remember exactly and I think part way up I made a longer run to act as a landing.

Any way for an outdoors staircase, I wouldn't want to go with the typical 7.5 rise and 10 inch run. The shorter rise and longer run is pleasing to the eye and comfortable for all ages to use.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Also, don't use "landscape timber". I used treated 6x6 s that were of the type you would use to sink in the ground for pole buildings. I don't see why they would not hold up well for the rest of your life.

 

[ultrarunner]

Here in East TX, our soil is acidic red clay with just about every type of wood eating bug out there. Creosote soaked railroad ties will not last ten years on the ground in contact with the soil. The bugs get through the creosote and eat them out from the inside. You never even see it happening. Just all of a sudden, it collapses. The outside looks fine, but it's hollow in the inside. I've never seen them used for steps, just in landscaping and fence posts.

I believe one of the main reasons the railroad sets the ties on a bed of gravel is make sure they do not touch the dirt so they last longer. Water will drain through the rock, and bugs do not get to them from the soil.

Same thing happened to me in Oakland... the RR ties looked great and I step up on one and it crunched... the entire cavity was termite infested... the 4 outside sides look great... guess those termites only like the tender inside?

 

[spitter]

Many companies out there sell interlocking pavers and block to build retaining walls ,steps,fire pits,and allkind of masonary structures ie stairs.They glue and pin together.Probally the best looking longest lasting brick structures without much skill or tools involved for a diy.Cheapestis to build a form and pour it .I have been a carpenter for 37 years now and have replaced more wooded outside exposed structures than u can shake a rotten 6x6 at .Just replaced 7year old 6x6 with a dust pan but the plastic home dumpo lable still there:confused2::drink:

 

[GPintheMitten]

I wouldn't use RR ties but I would use treated 6x6 s.
And I had good results for years with them.

That said, I think the combination of retaining wall blocks and landscape patio paving stones would make a great stair system as well.