Late last night

[dave1949]

Thanks. It's unfortunate that the report lacks DGU stats.

Apparently the problem is there is no reliable and standard data collected to base those stats on. I think that is why there is an ongoing food fight over old studies based on some pretty low sample surveys with inconsistent definitions of what constitutes a DGU.

 

[dave1949]

Quick poll.... how many TBN members own guns, a ski mask and duct tape? :laughing:

I have all that gear, just can't find anything worth stealing that's within get-away tractor range.

 

[k0ua]

Quick poll.... how many TBN members own guns, a ski mask and duct tape? :laughing:

I have all 3. Are you trying to say something here moss?

 

[k0ua]

Apparently the problem is there is no reliable and standard data collected to base those stats on. I think that is why there is an ongoing food fight over old studies based on some pretty low sample surveys with inconsistent definitions of what constitutes a DGU.

Exactly. Many DGU's are nothing more than someone showing a prospective criminal that they have a gun, or even shouting thru a door "I have a gun". While I don't recommend it, sometimes it works in a positive fashion. I would "guess" that most DGU's do not involve firing any shots.

 

[texasjohn]

Never had a gun pointed at me, nor been shot at, thus your experience exceeds mine.
However, if someone points a gun at me in a hostile situation, I simply WILL assume that they intend to use it, likely sooner than later, and, if carrying/possible, will shoot them first. I know how fast a trigger can be pulled and simply will not let them send the first round if I can help it.

That's the philosophy I live by. That's also my only concern with concealed carry licenses. I'm not sure all of the Concealed Carry people understand this basic, human nature philosophy. You point a gun at me and you better be prepared to shoot me. If not I'll try to take it away from you and if successful will beat you with it.

I've had guns pointed at me and I've been shot at. It really tends to pi** you off.

 

[MossRoad]

I have all 3. Are you trying to say something here moss?

Statistics show.... :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

Never had a gun pointed at me, nor been shot at, thus your experience exceeds mine.
However, if someone points a gun at me in a hostile situation, I simply WILL assume that they intend to use it, likely sooner than later, and, if carrying/possible, will shoot them first. I know how fast a trigger can be pulled and simply will not let them send the first round if I can help it.

And hostile response from demographic with low crime in 3. 2. 1.....

 

[texasjohn]

And hostile response from demographic with low crime in 3. 2. 1.....

Yep...I know, I know:drink: It's hard to put into words what I mean by "hostile situation" but I hope I would know it if it were to occur. It would certainly involve me being afraid for my life because the deadly intent of the person holding the gun had been made clear, in word and/or deed. I have no intent to present a gun unless this is the case. Once I present a gun, if the deadly threat/intent persists, then I perceive I have no alternative but to attempt to protect myself. Note that there are TWO points in time where I determine that I am in the presence of deadly intent AND the means to carry it out AND that I am the immediate target.

The presence of a gun, alone, is insufficient. Intent to use it with deadly force to me has not been established.

Intent alone is insufficient. Verbal threats, ranting, raving, is insufficient because the means of deadly force to me does not exist. Intent involves assessing the mental state of the individual and is based on many verbal and non verbal cues.

A difficult to define "time factor" also exists...a deadly intent can exist, with the means to carry it out, and yet still not be IMMEDIATE. Immediacy is paramount in determining that deadly force response is warranted/required to prevent my own death.

Only in a situation where a DEADLY weapon is present in the hands of someone who INTENDS to use it, IMMEDIATELY, against ME is a deadly force response necessary because I am in fear of my life.

One cannot know what they would do until presented with the actual situation and have it play out.

I keep thinking about the poor girl shot in a car and dumped on my place. Had I confronted the perpetrators, unknowingly, on that dark morning, would they have shot at me? They had the means. The intent is unknowable as is the immediacy. Certainly they would have been in a high state of agitation/adrenalin having shot her only a few minutes previously. Had they shot at me, what would I have done? Would I have been in their headlights to confront them? Would there have been a clear target for me in the dark, uncertain lighting. Would I have retreated into the dark, removing myself as a target for them? Retreat would have been the prudent thing. We'll thankfully never know. The perpetrators were caught after about six months following a multi-state LEO effort, convicted, and one is serving time.

 

[Citydude]

There are a few mentions of having a permit to carry concealed weapons. Wyoming no longer requires them. I was pretty concerned when the legislature removed the requirement. My worry was that it opened the door for more people packing with no training and more opportunities for gun related incidents. To date, my worries have been unfounded. To tie this in with the original post, for the majority of people packing, doesn't automatically mean that they will draw a weapon when an unusual event happens as in the " freeze" prank the young man pulled in the store.

 

[RSKY]

I am the original poster of this story so let me add a little information that I did not know earlier. The lady who told the story met my wife as she participated in a class for teachers at the local university. My wife was one of the instructors in the class. I have never met her. According to my wife she is ex military, a farm girl, who is comfortable carrying and using firearms. She participated in some talk of deer hunting in the class. The kid who did the yelling did not smile, just stood in one place after yelling. It was not until some more of his group came in that the customers realized it was not a holdup. I do not know if he had his hands in his pockets or what he had on. The lady posted the story on Facebook and commented that she would have hit him in the head with a six-pack of Sun-Drop (a local soda known for its high caffeine content) that she had in her hands if she had been closer.

The incident happened in a small local town that has a police department. But most of the area around where we live is policed by county Sherriff's Departments. These Departments are very competent but are spread thin. A 911 call will be answered but in a robbery situation the victims are on their own for 15-30 minutes. Several years ago there was an attempted robbery of a country store where one of the elderly customers walked out of the store to his pickup, retrieved his shotgun and walked back in the store and stuck it in the robber's back. A large percentage of the OLDER farmers are carrying. Few have a Concealed Carry Permit. They are not carrying firearms to protect themselves from other humans but have the habit of sticking a 22 revolver in their pocket for snakes, stray dogs, and other critters.

If this had happened forty years ago in a country store the kid would have been shot. As it was he just got yelled at.