Flail Mower Lawn Genie Flail Mower Parts Question

[Spanner]

The bearing shown in post 17 is designed to go into the cast iron housings not the stamped steel housing as Spanner has mentioned. Stamped steel housing usually use sealed bearings that require no added grease. The bearing you have may "fit" the stamped steel housing but its not the correct way. The bearing you have pictured requires adding grease and you have no way to do it. If you have to use the stamped steel housing for some reason you need a pre-lubricated sealed bearing. Spanner has mentioned everything I say here (I might have missed it) but I didn't see mention about a sealed bearing.

:thumbsup:

You're right about the sealed aspect. I failed to mention that- was too busy trying to get all the other stuff down in a hurry. I'm a 2-finger, 2-thumb typist.

I don't like 'sealed bearings' especially in this application. "Sealed-for-life" is the concept. Unfortunately the lifespan is short on a flail mower roller.

 

[Spanner]

I was trying to find a picture - This is a pic of a 2-bolt housing to suit your bearings. The 3-bolt housing type is not common anymore, but still available. More common is the square 4-bolt housing and the 2-bolt job. Called a "Rhombus Flanged Cast Housing" for fairly obvious reasons:



(Not sure why they are white either)

But you can see the slots at the rear for inserting the bearing and the grease fitting set towards the edge to align with your groove.

Some makes of 2-bolt housings come with 2 holes for the grease fitting, but only one grease fitting and a blanking screw. You choose which hole is best aligned for your grease gun access. The 2 holes are in-line with each other and 90* apart. Very convenient.

A 4-bolt housing would just be rotated as necessary. In the pic the GF is to the Left.

If you can't restore your old housings one of these 2 or 4-bolt housings can be made to fit your brackets.

 

[jolderdude]

I've been out doing the weekend chores. I'm still engaged in this discussion. Thanks for the continuing very helpful information.

My partner in crime said, "That's effing amazing" when he read through the topic. He also said, "Would have been nice if your parts vendor had tossed a clue about the locking collar eccentricity."

Here's a picture with the bearing stamping laid on the mounting and the outside view with the locking collar included. There's also a picture of another angle of the bearing in the stampings.

I don't see that there is any room for a zirc using the mount & bearing stamping combination I've got. I'd have to find a three bolt housing to match the mount I've got or find someone to fashion a new mount that would hold one of those housings you showed. It's possible that the two bolt housing would work if I drilled a hole across from the bottom hole on the mount. I don't think the four bolt model would work. I think the three bolt model you showed would just be asking for trouble given the weight and leverage of the gauge roller.

Where did you find those housings? Maybe I could contact the mfg and see what they have that might fit my requirements.

 

[Steave]

The Big Bearing Store - your source for all bearings needs

There are lot of online bearing stores or you may have a local bearings/drive supply in your area. The link above will get you to the online store I use. On the left side of the page you can click on whatever you're looking for. I've always been happy with ordering through them. I've never called and talked to anybody there just order through their site. Usually have my parts in 3-4 days and I live in the boon docks.

Spanner had those pix and may have another source.

 

[Spanner]

I've just been Googling and lost the huge post of info I amassed and written out for you but some highlights are:

Yes, ignore the 3-bolt housing I showed. I think the 4-bolt cast housing is best for your application. Some modification to the brackets may be necessary.

Bearings are made by BIG companies and distributed worldwide by 'Bearing Suppliers'. Big names include SKF, NSK, Timken, NTN, FAG, Nachi, Koyo etc. etc.
I found 3 Bearing Suppliers in Seattle, near you.

McGuire Bearing Company
Kaman Industrial Technologies
Applied Industrial Technologies

McGuires have a nice website. Read the FAQS regarding 'Mounting' - Mounted Bearing Installation - McGuire Bearing Company

They also handle the "Turner" brand shown in your pics. Their Spec. Sheet has 2 & 4 Bolt Greasable Cast Housings on Pages 11 & 12 here> http://mcguirebearing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/turnermntdbearing_specs.pdf

HCFJT 206-20 & HCFS 206-20 are the Part No's.

As well as the Eccentric Locking Collar type they also have the alternative 'Double Set Screw' version that I mentioned back on P.1 of this thread.

I'm sure if you spoke to them they would apply a solution to the problem of mounting your roller.

 

[Spanner]

Oh, and the pictures of the housings I posted came from the website of my local Bearing Supplier down here 'SAECO-Wilson'.

(Still don't know why they are white coloured.)

https://www.saecowilson.co.nz/#/product/search/?id=housing


AND the other thing I lost with this dreaded Database Error fault was to mention that you should not use the combination of the Pressed/Stamped Housings and those bearings with the grease access hole.

Either - Cast Housings with a zerk and your bearings OR your Pressed Housings with the sealed bearings as Steave mentioned.

You should address this aspect with the McGuire people. They have a Technical Support section, I see. Maybe have the Partner in Grime with you when you call.

Ps. Your Bainbridge Island looks a nice spot.

Regards,

 

[Spanner]

Applied Ind Tech. seem to be nationwide.

They have 3-bolt cast housings! Flange Units | Applied

You can filter (On the Left side of the page) to isolate the 1.1/4" shaft diameter options.

Measure your hole-spacing for comparisons. Spacing is measured both in a straight line (triangle shape) and distance from centre of an imaginary circle. (FYI)

 

[jolderdude]

Applied Ind Tech. seem to be nationwide.

They have 3-bolt cast housings! Flange Units | Applied

You can filter (On the Left side of the page) to isolate the 1.1/4" shaft diameter options.

Measure your hole-spacing for comparisons. Spacing is measured both in a straight line (triangle shape) and distance from centre of an imaginary circle. (FYI)

WOW. The cost is significant for some of those. I looked at the first page and saw some of them were over $2,000 each. The cheapest on the first page were over $300 each. Then I used the filter and looked for three bolt, 1.25" options and the costs dropped down to reasonable.

Now I have to understand bolt spacing and bolt circle to figure out which will fit my mount. I'm guessing that bolt spacing is the straight line you mention and the bolt circle is the imaginary circle idea. One of the units I'm looking at has a specification with the bolt circle diameter of 3 9/16". Measuring from the center of bearing, the bolt holes in my mount are out 1 3/4" so that one would probably fit.

One difference is going to be the attachment position on the mount. The bearing stampings and bearing I currently have are attached on the inside of the mount. Any pressure from the roller pushing up against the bearing forces the stamping/bearing outwards against the mount. The regreasable units I'm looking at will have to be mounted on the outside of the mount, putting the stress on the bolts. I've attached a picture of one of them.

That will also mean that the bearing will sit further out on the axle shaft. I'm going to have to measure to see if that's going to work. Now the locking collar is 13/16 proud of the mount at its furthest point. The regreasable unit length through bore is just over 1.5" and all of it is going to be on the outside of the mount.

This is all great stuff. I may end up with a long term solution to the bearing problem I've been having for quite some time. You guys are great.

 

[Spanner]

The websites usually show 'Retail' list prices. In practice there can be considerable discounts.
Those first ones you saw ($$$) frightened me too, Then I saw the dimensions... Huge!

That bearing in the housing you just posted is one of the "Double Set-Screw" type not an "Eccentric Collar" locking type.

You can use either in your application.

Perhaps, take a trip into Seattle and show your Housings, Brackets (both types) and Bearings to the bearing people of your choice. Take this thread along too.

Explain the issue and see what they have to offer.

Mounting the bearing inside/outside the bracket will make little difference. The key point is ease of access to the Grease Fitting. So 'outside' is better probably.
FYI: "TRIMAX" brand Flail Mowers use the 'Double Set-Screw' bearing mounted 'outside'.
You'll see an interesting local variation on the 3-hole cast housing in this page: http://shop.trimaxmowers.co.nz/common-parts/bearings.html which allows the mower to run close to the turf.

I think the weak point of your roller mounting arrangement is the 2-hole bracket itself. There is no fixing support below the bearing to the frame.

 

[jolderdude]

That bearing in the housing you just posted is one of the "Double Set-Screw" type not an "Eccentric Collar" locking type.

That was just one of them. I saw another that was Eccentric but it had an even greater length through bore. That's something I'm concerned about because of the difference in length outside the mount along the axle shaft. I'll have to measure to see to what length I have.

Mounting the bearing inside/outside the bracket will make little difference.

It will if the axle shaft is not long enough to handle the extra distance outside.

The key point is ease of access to the Grease Fitting. So 'outside' is better probably. I certainly understand that.


I think the weak point of your roller mounting arrangement is the 2-hole bracket itself. There is no fixing support below the bearing to the frame. That's been evident all along. The side panel of the mower flexes and is even a little bent. We had to use a little muscle to put it back in place.

I'll check out some local bearing sources this coming week, work allowing. Thanks for the research to give me a start.