glennmac
Veteran Member
I thought "cop" came from the copper badges that policeman used to have in England.
Lawyers, doctors, or guns
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toddler
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Hillbilly,
That also sounds familiar. Either way, policemen are citizens, and they are usually armed when on duty. Maybe it's both, one in England, one in the US? Maybe Bird know?? Bird, you following this??? <font color=blue>Calling all Birds.....</font color=blue>
Anyway, yes, I think everyone who wants to carry or fire a gun should have to pass a minimal gun safety course or test, and get a license saying they did. I'm also pro backround checks and waiting periods. I suspect a lot of people in New York or other cities have never considered where their bullet is going to go after they fire it at an intruder. If they did I think they'd own shotguns, not 22s or 357magnums. If you just want to collect guns and not use them, then I don't know about needing a license. Maybe just a collectors permit? If you think about it, it might be more realistic to require such a license to get the bullets or loading materials. Do you need to have a license to buy bullets?
Now before everyone jumps down my throat for the above paragraph, yes, I know how few deaths are caused by accidental shootings. However, your right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose, and you can't stop a bullet once it's been fired from your gun. I'll probably be taking a gun safety course myself next year even though I won't own one, because I think knowlege is a good thing. Heck, I'd like to see gun safety added to public school curiculums, although better sex education is higher on my list of priorities.
As to lead vs uranium bullets, I was more than half joking about the environment, but depleted uranium is both more environmentally friendly and more baby safe if they eat it. It would also give us someplace to get rid of the stuff, and it's super heavy.
Enjoy your weekend,
Todd
That also sounds familiar. Either way, policemen are citizens, and they are usually armed when on duty. Maybe it's both, one in England, one in the US? Maybe Bird know?? Bird, you following this??? <font color=blue>Calling all Birds.....</font color=blue>
Anyway, yes, I think everyone who wants to carry or fire a gun should have to pass a minimal gun safety course or test, and get a license saying they did. I'm also pro backround checks and waiting periods. I suspect a lot of people in New York or other cities have never considered where their bullet is going to go after they fire it at an intruder. If they did I think they'd own shotguns, not 22s or 357magnums. If you just want to collect guns and not use them, then I don't know about needing a license. Maybe just a collectors permit? If you think about it, it might be more realistic to require such a license to get the bullets or loading materials. Do you need to have a license to buy bullets?
Now before everyone jumps down my throat for the above paragraph, yes, I know how few deaths are caused by accidental shootings. However, your right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose, and you can't stop a bullet once it's been fired from your gun. I'll probably be taking a gun safety course myself next year even though I won't own one, because I think knowlege is a good thing. Heck, I'd like to see gun safety added to public school curiculums, although better sex education is higher on my list of priorities.
As to lead vs uranium bullets, I was more than half joking about the environment, but depleted uranium is both more environmentally friendly and more baby safe if they eat it. It would also give us someplace to get rid of the stuff, and it's super heavy.
Enjoy your weekend,
Todd
JOR_EL
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Patrick,
Just stoppped in for a brief look-around, ...been busy. Your "subject" caught my eye.
Thanks for a good laugh!!
(Of course the whole thing makes too much sense to ever "fly" (in terms of public ,much less political, acknowledgement.)
Don't have time to read all the responses now, ...I'm sure there are some good ones. I'll come back!
Larry
Just stoppped in for a brief look-around, ...been busy. Your "subject" caught my eye.
Thanks for a good laugh!!
(Of course the whole thing makes too much sense to ever "fly" (in terms of public ,much less political, acknowledgement.)
Don't have time to read all the responses now, ...I'm sure there are some good ones. I'll come back!
Larry
Todd,
How would they enforce a licensing law as far as testing or a mandatory gun safety course? I have handled guns for about 34 to 35 years,I can go down in my woods right out of my back door and hunt and know one would know it unless they heard the gun fire.If they came out and said they were going to make it a law you have to be safety certified to buy ammunition,I and probably a thousand others would be going to our local store and stocking up on ammo and/or reloading supplies before the law went into effect.For myself a thousand dollars would more than supply me with enough ammo to last me the rest of my days.And if I did not want to look obvious I could spread my money around to a few different stores.They would not have enough law offiers to enforce such a law.
You say " a lot of people would own shotguns/versus 22's or 357 magnums" because of the travel of the bullet versus a shotgun. A lot of people prefer a pistol over a shotgun because of the ability to hide the gun,but then again there is such a thing as a sawed off shotgun. If an individual is under duress or has an intruder coming after them they are not going to be thinking about the target behind them as much as they are the intruder,even if they are safety trained,although they should be aware of there backdrop.People make mistakes regardless. A collectors permit,how are they going to enforce that?? Is Big brother going to come to my house and look around or is my neighbor going to report me if I do not step forward and wave my hands and say I have guns here,I want to register!!!
A gun safety course in school? Not a bad idea,but not politcally correct this day an age. With all of the school violence,they won't buy that gun safety course this day and age,you can't teach a gun safety course without guns and the liberal left and media would have a hayday on something like that.
The schools today are more worried about sensitivity training about someones sexual orientation,and things like PETA, liberal views,being politically correct,not having or having prayer in the school,outlawing hunting. When I was in school we had a gun safety course in junior high,a game warden came in and we went to the football fields and they had 22 rifles laying there and awaiting,I hate to say it but those days are gone.
Uranium being heavier than lead as better bullets,you want a lighter bullet for speed/velocity. If you want to educate yourself or kids in school put some NRA magazines or Outdoor Life/Feld and Stream magazines in the school library or your home. The NRA has gun safety courses.
Last but not least I have no problem with a 3 day waiting peroid for a gun,but not all guns are sold through stores.
A big joke is this gun buy back program!!!!!! A criminal uses a gun to commit a crime,he can take it and sell it and get some money,get rid of the gun,the gun is then destroyed and all the evidence is destroyed as well.If a baby is eating bullets you have a bigger problem than lead versus uranium. What about pencils they have lead?
How would they enforce a licensing law as far as testing or a mandatory gun safety course? I have handled guns for about 34 to 35 years,I can go down in my woods right out of my back door and hunt and know one would know it unless they heard the gun fire.If they came out and said they were going to make it a law you have to be safety certified to buy ammunition,I and probably a thousand others would be going to our local store and stocking up on ammo and/or reloading supplies before the law went into effect.For myself a thousand dollars would more than supply me with enough ammo to last me the rest of my days.And if I did not want to look obvious I could spread my money around to a few different stores.They would not have enough law offiers to enforce such a law.
You say " a lot of people would own shotguns/versus 22's or 357 magnums" because of the travel of the bullet versus a shotgun. A lot of people prefer a pistol over a shotgun because of the ability to hide the gun,but then again there is such a thing as a sawed off shotgun. If an individual is under duress or has an intruder coming after them they are not going to be thinking about the target behind them as much as they are the intruder,even if they are safety trained,although they should be aware of there backdrop.People make mistakes regardless. A collectors permit,how are they going to enforce that?? Is Big brother going to come to my house and look around or is my neighbor going to report me if I do not step forward and wave my hands and say I have guns here,I want to register!!!
A gun safety course in school? Not a bad idea,but not politcally correct this day an age. With all of the school violence,they won't buy that gun safety course this day and age,you can't teach a gun safety course without guns and the liberal left and media would have a hayday on something like that.
The schools today are more worried about sensitivity training about someones sexual orientation,and things like PETA, liberal views,being politically correct,not having or having prayer in the school,outlawing hunting. When I was in school we had a gun safety course in junior high,a game warden came in and we went to the football fields and they had 22 rifles laying there and awaiting,I hate to say it but those days are gone.
Uranium being heavier than lead as better bullets,you want a lighter bullet for speed/velocity. If you want to educate yourself or kids in school put some NRA magazines or Outdoor Life/Feld and Stream magazines in the school library or your home. The NRA has gun safety courses.
Last but not least I have no problem with a 3 day waiting peroid for a gun,but not all guns are sold through stores.
A big joke is this gun buy back program!!!!!! A criminal uses a gun to commit a crime,he can take it and sell it and get some money,get rid of the gun,the gun is then destroyed and all the evidence is destroyed as well.If a baby is eating bullets you have a bigger problem than lead versus uranium. What about pencils they have lead?
Bird
Rest in Peace
<font color=blue>Maybe Bird know?? Bird, you following this??? Calling all Birds</font color=blue>
Todd, I've been reading it, and staying out of it on purpose./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I don't know where the slang "cop" or "copper" for police officers came from (and don't think anyone else does either)./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I think I've heard 'em all; citizen on patrol, constable on patrol, copper buttons on the uniform, etc. An awful lot of officers really take offense to being called a cop (and I'm not sure why either).
And to go into my opinion of the gun laws (and a lot of other laws) is far too complex for me to get into in this brief space. I'm afraid a lot of our laws don't make a lot of sense to me. Just one example: I've owned rifles and shotguns since before I was 12 years old, pistols since I was 18, have a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice, served nearly 25 years as a police officer, qualified with pistols and shotgun twice a year, have 4 marksmanship awards, have taken the FBI pistol course at the FBI Academy in Quantico, etc., but if I wanted to be licensed to carry a pistol now (as many people are in Texas) I would have to spend a couple of hundred dollars to go to a privately owned and operated "school" first./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Of course, up until the 90s, no one could get a license to carry a pistol in Texas unless they were in the military or law enforcement, and now an officer retiring can get a license for only $25 if he gets a letter approving it from his chief of police and if he gets the license within one year of retirement.
But for me personally, not a problem; haven't carried a pistol since I retired and don't need to./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Bird
Todd, I've been reading it, and staying out of it on purpose./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I don't know where the slang "cop" or "copper" for police officers came from (and don't think anyone else does either)./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I think I've heard 'em all; citizen on patrol, constable on patrol, copper buttons on the uniform, etc. An awful lot of officers really take offense to being called a cop (and I'm not sure why either).
And to go into my opinion of the gun laws (and a lot of other laws) is far too complex for me to get into in this brief space. I'm afraid a lot of our laws don't make a lot of sense to me. Just one example: I've owned rifles and shotguns since before I was 12 years old, pistols since I was 18, have a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice, served nearly 25 years as a police officer, qualified with pistols and shotgun twice a year, have 4 marksmanship awards, have taken the FBI pistol course at the FBI Academy in Quantico, etc., but if I wanted to be licensed to carry a pistol now (as many people are in Texas) I would have to spend a couple of hundred dollars to go to a privately owned and operated "school" first./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Of course, up until the 90s, no one could get a license to carry a pistol in Texas unless they were in the military or law enforcement, and now an officer retiring can get a license for only $25 if he gets a letter approving it from his chief of police and if he gets the license within one year of retirement.
But for me personally, not a problem; haven't carried a pistol since I retired and don't need to./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Bird
toddler
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It's funny Bird,
Your Texas gun laws are too convoluted and intricate to be useful. Doesn't change my opinion on what would be reasonable, just gives more light to why some responders feel so strongly against what I believe. Seems to me that if you can get a drivers license by passing a test, you should be able to get a gun license by passing a similar test. Have my doubts you'd fail any test I found reasonable.
Unfortunately and obviously, nobody is going to want to pay to administer the testing for free. That's life. Think the NRA would hold standardized testing, if they could get reasonable gun control laws? Not saying they should have to, they shouldn't, but I'd be curious if they would. Maybe the government could subsidize the program for non-members? Ahh, wishful thinking.
Hillbilly,
The fact that you could get around laws doesn't prove anything about what is reasonable or appropriate. Not all cars are sold by dealers and lots of people drive without a drivers license. Doesn't make it right.
As to NRA or Field and Stream being a good way to get educated regarding gun safety, I'll politely have to disagree./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif You didn't learn to drive from motor trend, did you?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif There has to be some hands on to learn these things.
Todd
ps) Most "lead" pencils now use graphite for the very reason we were discussing. Kids chew on them. You'll be hard pressed to find one that uses lead/Pb.
Your Texas gun laws are too convoluted and intricate to be useful. Doesn't change my opinion on what would be reasonable, just gives more light to why some responders feel so strongly against what I believe. Seems to me that if you can get a drivers license by passing a test, you should be able to get a gun license by passing a similar test. Have my doubts you'd fail any test I found reasonable.
Unfortunately and obviously, nobody is going to want to pay to administer the testing for free. That's life. Think the NRA would hold standardized testing, if they could get reasonable gun control laws? Not saying they should have to, they shouldn't, but I'd be curious if they would. Maybe the government could subsidize the program for non-members? Ahh, wishful thinking.
Hillbilly,
The fact that you could get around laws doesn't prove anything about what is reasonable or appropriate. Not all cars are sold by dealers and lots of people drive without a drivers license. Doesn't make it right.
As to NRA or Field and Stream being a good way to get educated regarding gun safety, I'll politely have to disagree./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif You didn't learn to drive from motor trend, did you?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif There has to be some hands on to learn these things.
Todd
ps) Most "lead" pencils now use graphite for the very reason we were discussing. Kids chew on them. You'll be hard pressed to find one that uses lead/Pb.
I can drive a car on my own land without a license,I can hunt on my own land without a license,I should be able to own and use a gun on my own property with out a license,The NRA magazines would not make you an experinced handler of guns but reading material would help educate you and more informed,When I did take a drivers test,part of it was written and part of it was driven,I have seen people pass the drivers part of the exam and does not necessarily mean they are a good driver. A gun cerification would be more viable on public hunting grounds than private property. As far as lead pencils you have a point,but I do not think babies chewing on lead bullets is an issue. In West Virginia if you are of a certain age and you buy a hunting license you have to take a gun safety course,but if you are my age and have hunted for years,you do not have to take a gun safety course.Also a resident landowner does not have to have a license to hunt on his or her land in West Virgina.
How are you going to enforce a waiting peroid on guns on private treaty sales? You are not.
Tell me anything the goverment gets involved in that does not become convoluted and intricate?
How are you going to enforce a waiting peroid on guns on private treaty sales? You are not.
Tell me anything the goverment gets involved in that does not become convoluted and intricate?
Wingnut
Veteran Member
Todd ... since you're in favor of licenses and background checks on people wanting to own guns ... how do you feel about parents being tested and licenced for the ability to raise kids in a fashion that leads them to not pick up guns and blow away a\other students?
Gungrabber like to use the Colorado shootings as an example of why guns shouldn't be allowed. But my problem with that arguement is that a) the kids were quite obviously severely wacko and b) not, in any way, under parental scrutiny and c) the gubns were illegally obtained.
What would your background checks and ability tests do for a situation like that. Hmm ... maybe we should change the bumper sticker to "Guns don't kill people, paremts kill people".
OK ... tongue removed from cheek .... do you think everything that someone thinks is dangerous should be licensed and tested? Where do you stop? I remember a case in the arctic where a native woman scalded her drunk husband to death ... so obviously hot water is dangerous and needs to be regulated.
Kewl ... thought I sent this yesterday ... log on today and it's still waiting ... gotta remember that doggone preview flag!
By the way ... I find that comparison of guns and cars very ludicrous. Kind of like saying ... yes, but if you were a 14 year old purple martian ... a gun is not a car ... and licensing is just another form of taxation (whuich is exactly what it started out to be ... else why are there so many incompetant car drivers? More per capita than incompetant gun owners?)
too bad that common sense ain't
Gungrabber like to use the Colorado shootings as an example of why guns shouldn't be allowed. But my problem with that arguement is that a) the kids were quite obviously severely wacko and b) not, in any way, under parental scrutiny and c) the gubns were illegally obtained.
What would your background checks and ability tests do for a situation like that. Hmm ... maybe we should change the bumper sticker to "Guns don't kill people, paremts kill people".
OK ... tongue removed from cheek .... do you think everything that someone thinks is dangerous should be licensed and tested? Where do you stop? I remember a case in the arctic where a native woman scalded her drunk husband to death ... so obviously hot water is dangerous and needs to be regulated.
Kewl ... thought I sent this yesterday ... log on today and it's still waiting ... gotta remember that doggone preview flag!
By the way ... I find that comparison of guns and cars very ludicrous. Kind of like saying ... yes, but if you were a 14 year old purple martian ... a gun is not a car ... and licensing is just another form of taxation (whuich is exactly what it started out to be ... else why are there so many incompetant car drivers? More per capita than incompetant gun owners?)
too bad that common sense ain't
toddler
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Wingnut,
It's all a question of what risk there is to others. Cars are driven on public roads. A drivers test, licensing, road maintenance, and speed limits is the best we've come up with to keep the risks reasonable.
In Vermont, bullets are fired on public and private land. If I don't want someone to be able to hunt on my property, I have to go out and post signs every x# of feet. Thing is, I like the open land policy. People ride bicycles, atv's, and horses across our back property, and our neighbors go back there to hunt. Do you feel any schlock should be able to go out, buy a gun, and hunt on my property without prooving he knows something about gun safety? Is that what is right, because that's the easiest system to maintain?? Or maybe guns and hunting should be allowed only on public lands and owners on their own land. Is that your ideal world??? Or should Vermont have designated hunting areas and post them, "Enter at your own risk."?
I don't think I've asked for anything outrageous. If you want to debate the difference between hot water and guns, we can do that. Not sure what it will accomplish. As I've said before, the fact that we can't design a perfect system, doesn't mean I can't ask for a reasonable one. Since you don't like my ideal, what do you think is reasonable?
As to parental licensing. I think that's been tried in several countries, many times. Can't imagine why it doesn't work well.
/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif?? Must be that thing George Carlin says, "Thank G-d these don't come off."/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Later,
Todd
It's all a question of what risk there is to others. Cars are driven on public roads. A drivers test, licensing, road maintenance, and speed limits is the best we've come up with to keep the risks reasonable.
In Vermont, bullets are fired on public and private land. If I don't want someone to be able to hunt on my property, I have to go out and post signs every x# of feet. Thing is, I like the open land policy. People ride bicycles, atv's, and horses across our back property, and our neighbors go back there to hunt. Do you feel any schlock should be able to go out, buy a gun, and hunt on my property without prooving he knows something about gun safety? Is that what is right, because that's the easiest system to maintain?? Or maybe guns and hunting should be allowed only on public lands and owners on their own land. Is that your ideal world??? Or should Vermont have designated hunting areas and post them, "Enter at your own risk."?
I don't think I've asked for anything outrageous. If you want to debate the difference between hot water and guns, we can do that. Not sure what it will accomplish. As I've said before, the fact that we can't design a perfect system, doesn't mean I can't ask for a reasonable one. Since you don't like my ideal, what do you think is reasonable?
As to parental licensing. I think that's been tried in several countries, many times. Can't imagine why it doesn't work well.
/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif?? Must be that thing George Carlin says, "Thank G-d these don't come off."/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Later,
Todd
toddler
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HillBilly,
Didn't mean to ignore your response. I'll look for your opinion on reasonable gun laws too. Remember, they'll have to work everywhere, not just on large tracts of land in West Virginia.
Todd
Didn't mean to ignore your response. I'll look for your opinion on reasonable gun laws too. Remember, they'll have to work everywhere, not just on large tracts of land in West Virginia.
Todd