leaf/grass collection possibilities

[michaelb]

Have any of you 400 series owners attached a leaf vacuum to your mower deck? I have my wife convinced that we need this machine, but I have a heavily wooded lot with tons (literally) of leaves. She does most of the mowing and agreed to a new tractor, as long as it can suck up the leaves. I have been looking at the Cyclone Rake or the trak-vac. Is there room on the 60" deck to hook up an 8" hose? I checked out the pics at the PT site and I appears that there is enough room, but it's hard to say for sure. Do I understand correctly that the mower discharge is to the rear? I would be able to fabricate an adapter from the deck to the hose, as long as there is room. Thanks in advance for the help.

Mike

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Mike:
It sounds as if you and your wife are committed to the idea of a leaf vacuum, so my response to your post may not be welcome. I don't know whether a vacuum can be easily attached to the rear-discharge mower. On my 1845, however, with the 72" deck, I have found that it mulches everything so well that I don't have anything left to pick up. I haven't used it for heavy leaf fall yet, but in high grass, brush and the leaves so far, after you mow, the residue is very fine and not unsightly. I suspect that for anything but a golf-course quality lawn, you won't find a vacuum necessary, and leaving the mulched leaves on the soil may mean that you don't need to fertilize as much.
Having said that, of course, cutting a hole in the deck and attaching a vacuum sounds like a great project. John Coxon and I have been experimenting with different blade designs under the 72" deck, but I have to confess I am not sure where the best place to cut a hole might be. The rear discharge is fairly wide, but we have found that raising the rear of the mower or removing the rear rubber skirt have considerable effect on the cut quality, by relieving the rear discharge pressure when we use high-lift blades. I assume that lowering the rear or extending the rear skirt would similarly partially seal the discharge and raise the pressure so a vacuum would really scavange underneath. MossRoad or one of the other 60" deck operator should be able to post a photo of the top rear of the deck for you.
I know Bubenberg does a lot of fall cleanup on a professional basis, and I hope will chime in.

 

[Schultz]

If you’re into modifying your equipment, you may be able to pick up a used Ingersoll/Case lawn hydra-vac and some how adapt it to fit onto the 60” deck. The Ingersoll vac is hydraulically driven on 8.5-9.5 g/min, which is about the same as the PT’s PTO output. Therefore, it could be put in series with the mower. I currently own an Ingersoll and use the hydra-vac with a 60” mower. With fall clean up it works best at mulching & pickup if you only take only a 4’ bite into the dry leaves at a time. If I go too fast with the 60” mower, I find myself spending a lot time unplugging the unit. I also spend a lot of time running back and forth to my garden mulch pile. It doesn’t take long to fill a trailer with leaves and grass.

 

[bubenberg]

we have toyed with that idea of collecting of the rear discharge 6" finish mower. this idea takes to many modifications. so we are taking one of our acrease 60" side discharge mowers in tow with a trac vac 55 bushel trailer 8 hp vent. this rig is good for wide open areas but clogging up under wet leaf and grass conditions due to the length of the hose from the acrease to the trac vac is a big problem.

one idea is to get a walk behind mower and run the tube over the cab like some of the european inventions have done. the only thing i am afraid of is the heat problem around the rear ot the pt 425.

we have had fires with our clam shell device on our exmark ztr, when too much debris got near the kohler unprotected muffler.

i hope someone can come up with an idea to circumvent the clogging and heat problem.

 

[PTRich]

I have a 8hp giant vac leaf BLOWER with quick attatch plate on it. I think it works faster and better than a vac. We used a john deere 54inch with a 8hp vac system before we got our tractor, it was slower and filled up quickly. I keep hoping to find a large blower with a blown motor so I can hook up a hydralic motor to it. The blower also works when the leaves are wet unlike some vac systems.

 

[bubenberg]

do you blow your leaves into the woods now? or what is your method of collection?

 

[MossRoad]

I don't see it as an easy project. The collection tube would have to go up over the canopy and would be extremely long. I have used a bagger on other equipment and have to agree with the others that it fills up too fast or the tube gets clogged easily. I now use a hand held blower to put the leaves into windrows, then push them down the row with a hand rake turned upside down. The end of the row happens to be in the woods, where they stay forever /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I am contemplating making a basket to hold my hand blower that will mount onto my spare quick attach plate. This will allow me to drive my hand blower parallel to the ground and lower than I can hold it manually. Should save my back. I'll drive my PT and windrow the leaves as I usually do. Then I'll use my large bucket to push them down the windrows into the woods.

I like the idea of using a larger blower powered by hydraulics. Oh no!!! Another project idea /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I'm still in the hunt for a chipper/shredder donor machine to convert to hydraulics as well.

Schultz... as far as using a hydraulically powered vac in line with the 60" mower, I don't know if the PT425 would have enough power to operate both at the same time. What HP is the Ingersoll unit that you are familiar with? That sounds interesting. I'd like more info. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[michaelb]

Our current method of collection is to hand rake and blow with a Giant Vac blower onto a large tarp, then drag the tarp with my "vintage" Speedex to the mulch pile. Unfortunately I don't have a woods to just blow them to. I'll probably get the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://cyclonerake.com/>Cyclone Rake</A> for our Toro mower for now and see what I can rig up after I get the PT. I have a sloped lot with some hills and the trac vac doesn't seem stable enough. I'm looking at the bigger CR with the 6 Hp sucker. Thanks for the input.

 

[PTRich]

I blow them into the woods.

 

[bubenberg]

thanks rich, i wish i could do that but most of my customers want it hauled of the property, oh well!

good luck

hrl

 

[Schultz]

My Ingersoll has an 18hp Onan. The Ingersoll/Case’s are hydraulically driven through a transaxle and use a hydraulic PTO for its attachments except the mower and snow blower. It runs the 60" mower and the Hydra-vac with no problems. Without the vac you can mow at 6-7 mph but when the vac is on you have to put it in low range and mow around 3-4mph otherwise you'll spend more time unclogging it than mowing. So, with the reduced speed and mowing load the engine never bogs down.
Thanks for the blower idea, I'll have to try it. The Hydra-Vac could easily be used as a blower. Mine fits on the 3pt and could be turned so that it's outlet is pointing to the ground and blowing. I'll try it when the leaves drop. If your interested I'll let you know, how it works.
Another idea for those interested: Used Case/Ingersoll 41”-48" hydra-tillers can be picked up for around $300-$400, which work very well. Weld a quick attach plate to it, and be off tearing up the ground in no time. Oh, and you’ll also need some spray paint to cover the pumpkin orange color.

 

[Schultz]

I forgot to add a link to the manfacturs web site for the Hyda-Vac
http://www.ingersoll-inc.com/attach.html

There is also an Ingersoll/Case site that owners use to sell equipment and trade ideas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/casegardentractors

By the way I'm not trying to plug Ingersoll stuff. I'm just throwing some ideas out there for everyone.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi - I bought a Power Trac 425 in August and I am in the process of mounting a vacuum unit to it as you discuss
I already have the deck fitted with a boot to
collect the grass - I own an 8hp vacuum unit - I have not
yet put together a collection hopper - but I have the basic
idea draw up - I fitted the unit with 6 inch hose to get better
suction - we will see how it works - if it gets clogged I will move up to eight inches - The sixty inch deck does have the
room - I also fitted the rear of the deck with a full width
roller to get the striped pattern I like - the unit cuts very nice
I also added a shield to block the rear discharge when picking up the clippings

I have held off so far on building the hopper because i am
considering selling the 425 - I love the machine but I think the
unit is under powered for mowing on hills - I don't think it is the engine - It has lots of power - I think it justs needs a larger trans pump for hills at 20 degrees+ with a 60 inch deck - So I am looking at the 1430 and the 1845 - I am trying to get the pump make / model for these units - but Power Trac won't give it to me
They say they won't release it for competitive reasons
I don't understand why - I am a homeowner and to my
knowledge - the pumps are "off the shelf" - If anyone
can help me - let me know

 

[MossRoad]

I'm sure we would all like to see pictures of what you have done so far. Sounds very interesting.

 

[Schultz]

I would recommend starting with the 8" hose if you can. It's expensive stuff, but I think you'll find the 6" will clog easily. I have 8" on my 60" deck and it still clogs once and a while. I was contemplating putting a faster spinning hydraulic motor on for more suction, but I don't use it enough to justify the work or the expense. I found another time saving trick this fall with the oak leaves was to mow them once and then mow/vacuum the leaves. It makes for many less trips to the garden and I didn't experience any clogging.
BYW, I looked at changing the vacuum into a blower, but decided it was too much work, for my limited use. I would have had to make new mounts. Now that I have a digital camera I can get some close up's of the hydra-vac if anyone wants them.

 

[MossRoad]

Of course we want them /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[DocHeb]

I think he wants us to beg for the pictures! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Schultz]

I've got a bussiness trip this week and I forgot to take the camera home from work last night. So I'll post them monday. Next time I'll just assume you guys want to see them.
Tim

 

[MossRoad]

Good idea.... post everything and we'll tell you when its enough /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Oh Goody - Pictures