Learned big lesson on j20d hy-gard fluid

[tdurham]

I hope to pass on my big lesson. Will try to make this short and to the point. I bought my used X485 almost 4 years ago. Went to the dealer where original owner purchased it and got all the filters, oil, and hydro fluid. I knew nothing about the x485 other than it seemed like an awesome lawn tractor. Went there and asked for all the correct "stuff".

Today, i just went to another local JD dealer and requested j20d hydro fluid. Bottom line is this, He gave me J20C, NOT j20d!!!! Just as the original dealer did. I can't believe these guys. started researching after I got it to be sure I got the correct thing. No where on the front of the containers does it have j20c or j20d. If the manual is going to specify something, it should be clearly on the front of the jugs since both of my local JD dealers don't know anymore than a Walmart guy. I have been running j20c for 3 1/2 years and it just burns me up. I run only fully synthetic oils as I believe the oil is the live of the engine. Can't change anything about the last 3+ years but I now actually have j20d.

So for you guys who are new to JD lawn tractors and have not yet learned the ropes, do not assume your local JD dealer knows what they are talking about. The product number on the j20d jug is TY22000. And for the Harvard graduate who writes the owners manual, they should put the part number instead since j20d since it is not anywhere on the jug.

On a brighter note, after almost 4 years, I now have a cat 1 hitch with a few 3ph implements. Also just got my Johnny Bucket in today so I am finally using the x485 to its potential

Tim

 

[callmezonk]

Did you notice any difference? I just changed the oil on my LX280 for the first time. During the process of first finding how to do it and second finding which oil to use I got frustrated. Some owners insisted on JD oil which I have no problems with accepting since it's been tested and specified.

Then I found others that got different advice from the manufacturer such as using 5W-50 Synthetic weight in my personal lawn tractor. I read about a person who owned an LX279 (water cooled) that lost power/speed in his transmission. He eventually changed to the 5W-50 and said it made the difference. Once contemplating if the tranny had to be replaced. This story stuck in my mind. I wanted to stick with the factory specification but... Upon getting information from the manufacturer Tuff Torq on my K62 Hydro... I was told to use 5W-50 Synthetic. This is not on the chart. I'm thinking that they decided later to go this route.

Either way a story to add to the topic for the readers. I hope that your change went successful even with the different oil.

 

[glc24]

Your JD dealers (any JD dealer for that fact) should be the educated ones when it comes to the products they sell and service, but it happens all too often that there are too many that are "in the dark".

Tim,as for the Hy Guard type you were given,where you are geographically shouldn't matter. The only differences in the two are the temperatures that they are formulated for. I would think warm weather locations can use either one.

Greg

 

[hayman3347]

Hmmmm........I use Wal-Mart hydraulic oil and it clearly says J20D on it's back label.

 

[Yellowfever440]

John deere oil is chevron oil. The problem with putting part numbers in manuals is they change and sometimes those numbers don't stay in the system when they get replaced. John deere low viscosity hygard is j20d I believe and j10c is hygard. Low viscosity is the oil most lawn mowers and garden tractors use in the hydrostatic system. You didn't hurt anything in your mower hydro though. Probably helped it more that hurt it.

 

[CalG]

Way to much concern and commotion over something as basic as "weight" (viscosity index)

For some that have "learned the ropes" lubrication weight boils down to a matter of service conditions, and has nothing to do with dealer knowledge or walmart.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Chevron does not/ did not develop Deere's oil. It may be packaged and mixed by them (don't know if that is accurate either but won't argue that point) but it is Deere's formula. You can not buy the same product with someone else's name on it. The JD20c, d, etc, etc, these are just "bare bones" requirements and have existed for decades. As others have posted you can clearly read on many different brands and formulas the jd20 info. Deere's hygard/low vis hygard go substantially above and beyond those specifications.

 

[oldnslo]

From the X485 service manual

Hydrostatic Transmission and Hydraulic Oil
Use the appropriate oil viscosity based on these air temperature ranges. Operating outside of these recommended oil air temperature ranges may cause premature hydrostatic transmission or hydraulic system failures.
The following John Deere transmission and hydraulic oil is PREFERRED:
• LOW VISCOSITY HY-GARD® - JDM J20D.
The following John Deere oil is also recommended if above
preferred oil is not available: • HY-GARD® - JDM J20C.
Other oils may be used if above recommended John Deere oils are not available, provided they meet one of the following specifications:
• John Deere Standard JDM J20D;
• John Deere Standard JDM J20C.


IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! Mixing of LOW VISCOSITY HY - GARD® and HY - GARD® oils is permitted. DO NOT mix any other oils in this transmission. DO NOT use engine oil or “Type F” (Red) Automatic Transmission Fluid in this transmission. DO NOT use BIO-HY-GARD® in this transmission.

 

[Yellowfever440]

Chevron does not/ did not develop Deere's oil. It may be packaged and mixed by them (don't know if that is accurate either but won't argue that point) but it is Deere's formula.

I didn't say anything about chevron formulating it. When I worked at deere as a mechanic we got our hygard oil delivered by a contracted oil delivery service from deere. The delivery driver said they haul from deere oil mixing plant or factory until they run out of oil then everything comes directly from chevron. I asked him where deere got there materials from for the plant and he said chevron. When they got all the dealerships caught up they hauled from chevron to deere. I don't know who formulated because most of the oils and lubricants sold are probably privately labelled. Just like store brand groceries are made by a larger company and just sell there product in a store brand box. I'm sure case ih/new holland, agco, and deere all come up with something but I don't know they actually come up with the formula. But maybe I don't need to know.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

My apologies I miss-read the statement "john Deere oil is Chevron oil". I read that to mean you could buy the exact same oil in a different package, that is not the case. Regardless of what team of petroleum engineers developed the mix (all of the oem have them on staff) it is owned in total by them, they paid for the research and testing it is theirs and no one else's.

 

[Copperhead]

In terms of the JD motor oil, the tuffgard is made by Conoco and the Plus4 is made by Imperial. Still investigating the hygard.

The JD20D is one stout oil. It has a viscosity index of 195, which puts it squarely into Group IV PAO synthetic territory. Even the Amsoil product only comes in at a 171 viscosity index. In terms of VI, the higher the better. Since Mobil is the primary source of Group IV PAO base oil stocks in the country, I would suspect they might be the source blender for the JD20D. For my dollar, I would only use the JD20D year round, irregardless of temperature and who is blending it.

In contrast the JD20C has a viscosity index of 140. At best, it is a conventional/synthetic blend. And the JD20c has a TBN of 11 whereas the JD20D has a TBN of 13. Again, for my dollar, only JD20D is what I want.

side note: viscosity index has nothing to do with viscosity "weight". Viscosity index is the category of the base oil stock, with conventional oils down lower in number and higher end synthetic base oils up higher in number. You can have, say, a 10w30 conventional with a VI of around 140, and a 10w30 synthetic with a VI of 175. The viscosity index has some bearing on the NOACK volatility, or "cook off" of the oil.

Referencing the part numbers.... the JD20D gallons are TY22000 the quarts are TY22035

Just found out on the MSDS sheet for JD20D. It is made by Chevron. But I erred in the base oil composition. It is a very high quality Group III synthetic. Learn something new every day. But it makes sense, since Chevron was the company who pioneered Group III synthetic development and is the primary source for Group III base oil in the country.

 

[Amvcane]

I plow with my 318 in the winter and use Kubota super UTD 2. I find it has very good cold weather characteristics. Under $22 a gallon.

 

[Copperhead]

JD20D $13.60 a gallon

John Deere Hydrostatic Transmission Fluid - Quarts=TY22035 - Gallons=TY22000

 

[Amvcane]

I spent a lot of time on the internet looking for the -40*c viscosity value for the low vis hy guard and could not find it. The kubota super UDT 2 specs seemed to be a little better than the full synthetic Chevron. I bought 2 5gal. buckets of the super UDT2 for my Kioti Ck35 and had enough left over for the 318.

 

[Rob50056]

Hmmmm........I use Wal-Mart hydraulic oil and it clearly says J20D on it's back label.

That's interesting.
Have you used it?
I can't find any J20D or maybe they're calling it low viscosity hydro-gard transmission fluid TY22000?
I am getting fed up on paying 2-4 times the value for just because it's JD brand.

 

[beenthere]

I pay the piper for the real hyd. oil.. to me, not worth the risk when it comes to oil.
To me, cheap enough as one doesn't have to change oil very often.
I'd not want to "pay the piper" for any tranny parts that Walmart might not have "cheap" on their shelf. But don't mean to offend anyone who goes the cheap route.

IF hy-gard is really 2-4 times the price of WallyWorld, I will not know it..

 

[3Ts]

This comment does not directly address oil, but I believe the concept is the same.

Many years ago I worked at a company that made Integrated circuits. We had a published set of "standard electrical performance". Every circuit we made was tested to this standard. We also had some customers that wanted better performance than our "standard" and some that were satisfied with less. So, what we did was start with the strictest requirements and those that didn't make the cut were relegated to the next lowest tier until we got down to "standard product". We also had one customer that would accept less than standard. All these were marked with the industry standard product marking and the customer's part number. So while the standard part number is the same for all customers, they are definitely not the same performance. I believe the same applies to the oil, but can not verify that.

 

[crazyal]

Here's what Tuff Torq says should be in the transaxle they made:
https://www.tufftorqservices.com/in...echInfo/ttcoil/pdfs/Fluids and Lubricants.pdf