Learning How / field preparation

DFB · Dec 21, 2000

Rev up the search engines! This web link has some info on composting. Like I said before I don't write 'em, just read 'em NebGuide

Bird · Dec 21, 2000

Rob, one year when I had a pile of wood chips that I acquired fresh during the garden growing season, I used them for mulch under and around my tomato and pepper plants both for weed control and moisture retention. No problem that I could tell, although I prefer straw. In fact, I just went after two of the big round bales of wheat straw day before yesterday (one for me and one for a neighbor) to use in the garden this coming Spring. And while I think composting is a fine idea, I've just not had what I'd consider an ideal place for it, too lazy to go to the trouble, etc., so I just put everything into the garden and let it compost in place./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I have a big old galvanized double sink, from a commercial kitchen, by the garden and when we wash, peel, and trim vegetables, all the trimmings go back into the garden and as each crop ends for the season, I mow them down and till them in. Whew, time flies; only 7 weeks until time to start planting again./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

RobS · Dec 21, 2000

DFB, great site! Very informative yet concise. Thanks.

Rob

RobS · Dec 21, 2000

Bird, I think I like your approach. Sounds pretty low maintenance. I hadn't considered straw around the trees. Might have to try that.

Seven weeks to planting?!? If our winter keeps up, in seven weeks I won't be able to see our house... and it's a two story! Still enjoying it though /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Rob

DFB · Dec 21, 2000

Bird, how long IS your growing season?

Bird · Dec 21, 2000

Uh-oh, Rob & DFB, here I got again getting off topic. This thread started in the right place, but now I guess it ought to be in the lawn & garden forum./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Oh well, what the heck . . ..

Planting time is determined in different ways by different folks. Lots of farmers with field crops around here go by soil temperature and moisture content. For vegetable gardens, it's just when the weather's suitable and/or they have the time to plant a garden, and a lot of them at least put out their onion sets shortly after the first of the year. And then there's a few who believe in going by the signs of the moon. Well, I don't really know whether it makes any difference or not, but I figure if I've got to plant it, it can't hurt to do that, so I make up a calendar according to The Old Farmer's Almanac every year for a planting schedule, and it's going to be a little later this coming year (did they know we were going to have an unusually cold winter?). So I'll be planting my beets, oninons, radishes, turnips, and potatoes between Feb. 10 to 22. This past year, I planted the radishes, turnips, and oinions on Jan. 21 and finished the last of the planting of all the garden on Mar. 13. And if you water enough, the garden can continue on through most of October, but this past summer was so hot and dry, we had a grasshopper plague, and my wife said "enough" after she canned 18 cases of stuff and filled the freezers, so I just quit and mowed the garden down and tilled it in on July 17 even though it was still producing.

Bird

dullpain · Dec 22, 2000

LHSmith - Register when you get ready, and you will register. These guys are just to helpful to not.

I'm NOT an expert on the subject but here is what works for me. If your wallet will stand it get a 3PH tiller for the garden. I've been living in the country and raising a medium vegtable garden for 8 years. The tiller will turn under all your organic matter as well as prepare a great seed/transplant bed. Once planted I have a 5hp, 18 in wide, walk behind tiller for maintaining between rows as well as a small 2 cycle tiller (great for the wife's flower beds too) for in between and around plants the walk behind can't get into. TSC sells both. That may sound like overkill but like Bird I have an aversion to hoes and other manual garden devices!

You may want to plow it or turn over new garden with a moldboard 3PH plow first time. I have some real farmer friends that suggest you turn your garden with a plow every 3 or 4 years just because it will go deeper than the tiller??

Any organic matter you can amend the soil with is great. I now have a FEL for the first time and plan to add any kind of manure I can get my hands on. It really makes a difference. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out this Spring.

Bird · Dec 22, 2000

Re: Once planted I have a 5hp, 18 in wide, walk behind tiller for maintaining between rows

I had a 17" instead of 18" one; worked great, but I decided even that was too much work and a waste of money, so I sold it. And I learned this week that the guy who bought it has now bought a 3-point hitch tiller, so he's ready to sell that walk behind, too./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

real farmer friends that suggest you turn your garden with a plow every 3 or 4 years just because it will go deeper than the tiller??

I think they're right; I did that this Fall.

Bird

gordon · Dec 22, 2000

real farmer friends that suggest you turn your garden with a plow every 3 or 4 years just because it will go deeper than the tiller??

What happens by using a tiller over and over again on the same piece of soil it will actually cause -hard pan-. Guess thats the downside of using only a tiller.
Gordon

Kevin_mc · Dec 23, 2000

Rob,
I've been mulching with wood chips for over 10 years and when I get freshly ground chips I mix them with fresh cut grass(N2 source) and let them sit for 9-12 months before using them. Like any other brown material the wood chips need the nitrogen to decompose. I get most of my chips from tree trimming companies and do not want to get any fresh black walnut in my garden as it can really cause your ph to go crazy for a while so I always let them sit.

On your pine trees you may want to find oak leaves to mulch them with as they have a lot of acid in them and pine trees like acid.

Kevin Mc

ddl · Dec 23, 2000

I was reading in interest until I got to the point where a tiller causes hardpan and a plow would solve this problem. The real farmers as was stated do not use a plow except to break sod. When I was growing up on the farm all that was used was a plow, now they use chiesel plows or tillers. Most only work the surface to a depth that the seed is planted. USing a tiller by tilling in two directions you avoid the problems of hardpan. The more tools you have the better job you can do, but if you are limited in deep pockets, a good tiller and some common sense will do a great job. Throw in a disk and a harrow and you can do the job of real farmers. What ever you do have fun.
Dan L

GeorgeH · Dec 23, 2000

Here in northeast Ohio a lot of farmers use no-till planting for corn, soybeans, etc. The farmer that leases three of our fields is a big believer in no-till planting. Less fuel used in ground preperation is a major factor. I still think that not turning the previous years crop under to decompose the stalks etc. is a waste of fertilizer. Some believe it takes more out of the ground to break it down then is put back to enrich it. What do the members think?

George /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Dec 23, 2000

George, I've read some about that no-till planting, but don't know a lot. The big farmers in this area use almost nothing but disks to plow the big fields before planting (corn, cotton, wheat, oats, milo, grain sorghum, mostly). And after harvest, they usually mow with big brush hogs, and then use the disks to cut it in. And of course, they make extensive use of anhydrous ammonia for fertilizer.

Bird

gordon · Dec 23, 2000

I was reading in interest until I got to the point where a tiller causes hardpan and a plow would solve this problem.USing a tiller by tilling in two directions you avoid the problems of hardpan

First Dan let me say that I'm very sorry to have lost your interest. Now let me try to gain it back with the little bit of common sense that I've got.--Ok--?

Lets say we have a garden that we use a tiller on running two different ways. Now we use the tiller year in and year out. How deep does that tiller go? What happens to the soil at the bottom of the tillers reach? Does that line of dirt have an adverse outcome on the crop? What is the purpose of a moldboard or a chiesl plow? Why are chiesl and moldboard plows made if a disc would do the same job--disc being closest to a tiller?
Tell me where I'm wrong so I can be smarter at the end of the day than the start of the day.
Thanks
Gordon

DFB · Dec 23, 2000

Well, this discussion has got my interest. Gordon I agree that packed soil below a tillers reach will have an effect on crops especially root crops. I am confused as to exactly how tilling the soil causes hardpan. I thought compaction causes hardpan. Certainly a tiller can only go so deep and thats when you would need a chisel tip plow or sub-soiler to loosen the ground deeper. My understanding is a regular moldboard plow is mainly used for turning sod and soil and a disc for chopping (breaking) up the clods into usable soil. As for tilling in 2 directions all that should do is get you a finer till. Interesting for sure.

GeorgeH · Dec 23, 2000

I have a large area of hardpan in one field were the neighbor used to plant corn, wheat, oats etc. He would plow the daylights out of it and could not break it up. It didn't matter how many bottom plow he used, how big a tractor he used, or what direction he plowed. When he hit that spot, whatever plow he was pulling would just come up out of the ground and scratch across the surface. After about 15 years of this he just went to no-till planting. Crop yield in that particular spot isn't much to brag about either way.

George /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gifEdited by GeorgeH on 12/23/00 06:33 PM.

Anonymous Poster · Dec 23, 2000

George,

Get out there with your pick, for heavens sake... that's where the diamonds are!!

Larry ;-)

GeorgeH · Dec 23, 2000

Pick ??? I don't think so. Rock drill and dynamite, maybe!!!

George /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

jimmoore · Dec 23, 2000

When I plant tomatoes, I buy tall skinny plants that won't stand up. then I dig a trench about 3 inches deep down the center of the row and lay the plant in the trench and cover it all except about 4 inches from the top, turn the top straight up and pack dirt around it. Feeder roots will sprout out of all the stem that is covered and provide a lot more nutriants to the plant than just the feeder roots on the bottom of the plant would. jim

Bird · Dec 24, 2000

Jim, when the nursey owner where I buy my plants told me to plant the tomatoes by laying them down that way instead of setting them in straight up, I couldn't believe it, but it sure works; I've been doing the same thing for several years.

Bird