Learning How / field preparation

[ddl]

Gordon
I did not loss interest, it was peaked. I hear from people around here about using a plow in the garden in the fall. I still stand by what I said about hardpanning. It is caused by the plow slicing the ground and packing the dirt down as the plow is pulled through the ground like a wedge or vee. A tiller does not do that for it cuts the ground and the surface area of the tines are very small and not all the surfaces are in the same plane. It does pack the ground but not as much. I did enjoy reading and still do enjoy reading all comments, Remember that my opinon is just like everyone elses, just my opinon. Keep writing.
Dan L

 

[jimmoore]

Here in the delta, the cotton farmers use huge tractors and they use a tool bar with ripper shanks on the front of the bar that rips about 2 feet deep, behind that on the bar they have "middlebusters" that makes a row right over the ripper crack. They drag that down some and plant on top of the row. That allows the taproot to go down deep in the crack. The feeder roots on most plants are in the top 4 inches of soil. jim

 

[gordon]

Well you don't have to worry about one thing--or maybe you do, is me stopping from writing!!! Thats the great thing about the U.S.A. we are all allowed to have our own viewpoint be it right or wrong. Now to the hardpan.

If you run a tiller and fluff the 6-8" depth the area of dirt that the tines just comes in contact with does great. But what I was speaking of was the area right below it. If you use a moldboard to turn the dirt and fold the old crop in, but also run the tiller over the ground after using the moldboard. To get a better planting bed. Did that make sense??? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Guess something else that really comes into play here is the type of soil your dealing with and the overall outcome of that soil type.
Gordon

 

[Wingnut]

back in Canada, the wheat farmers newspaper that I subscribed to really touted the no-till methods. My understanding of the whole argument was that no-till meant that your field didn't blow away ... i.e. no erosion. I thought this was a great idea after driving through several "dust" storms where the cloud was 1000 feet high, miles and miles wide and looked like the end of the world as I was approaching it.
Never tried it though ... requires specialized equipment ... which means costly ... and I have never worked major fields anyway.
Hey, re this compaction thing ... wouldn't the ground under the point that a plow reaches also be compacted? I know mine sure is ... that was why it was tiled (before the doofus took off and sold the topsoil and left me with ... darned poor dirt.

too bad that common sense ain't

 

[Anonymous Poster]

My brother and I farm about 1300 acres. All of it is no till. Both of us work other jobs and no-till requires much less labor for us and machinery. No-till utilizes herbicides to control weeds. We do minimal to no tillage prior to planting. Corn stalks are shreded in the fall after harvest using a flail-type shredder or by using a device called a rolling cutter. Corn stalks are tall and interfere with no-till planting unless pulverized into smaller pieces. Soybeans or other crops are harvested and left as is. At planting time, either a no-till drill or planter is used. The previous years row are "split" with planting performed in the space between the old rows. Advantages of no-till are less labor, decrease fuel costs, less wear on machinery and fewer hours on machinery, increased soil conservation (more residue on surface) and conservation of soil moisture (esp important in dry years). The down side is increased chemical cost (herbicides) and increased soil compaction. The amount of useful fertilizer obtained from turning the crop residue into the soil by tillage is minimal.

On land which had been previous pasture or not farmed we use either a subsoiler or plow to break up the soil. A subsoiler has one or more shanks that rip 12-18 inches into the soil. With 20 acres and a compact/utility tractor, I would favor a plow. It would be easiest to plow in the fall, allow the ground to mellow over winter and then use a tiller or disc in the spring. If the grass is tall, I would either mow or spray with round-up first and then plow.

 

[Bird]

mdewald, good to hear from someone with actual experience. Thanks for the information.

Bird

 

[Leef]

Stevepio, Bird, LHSmith,

I've read the first half of this thread with great interest b/c I have had the exact same questions. Your explanations are extremely helpful. However, your advice/experience addresses gardens. I have 5 acres of pasture which I'll mow until we build our home on the acreage.

My question pertains to turning that pasture into a lawn. I'm not expecting to make it golf course quality, just a large nice lawn on 5acres around our new home. (I know it'll be a lot to mow, but I find being on the tractor is therapeutic).

My current plan of attack goes like this:
1. roundup
2. hire out for a plow (But what kind of plow?) in the fall
3. let the dirt "mellow" over the winter
4. rent a disc to break it up in the spring (but how big of a disc will my tractor pull for 5acres and what kind of disc? Are there different kinds of disc? Is there a difference between a disc and a disc/harrow?)
5. pull a culd-e-packer (4ft wide piece) to break the soil up further. I learned about this implement this summer when I borrowed a JD955 after the bulldozer and scraper we hired finished leveling and terracing. I used it to break up the dozer tracks and get some grass seed down to prevent erosion.That experience sold me on compact tractors.
6. drag an "I" beam to further pulverize
7. pull some sort of heavy roller to flatten out any bumps to minimize much future settling.( I've walked on new home lawns which are green, thick and beautiful, but you could sprain an ankle b/c the ground below is so rough)
8. seed w/ broadcast spreader (or hire out to have it drill seeded$$$) hopefully in the spring
9. run over again with a harrow to cover the seed
10. pray for lots of gentle rains

Wow, that's a bigger plan than I realized now that it's typed out. Obviously, the more I can do myself with the 2910 the better. I own a tiller too, but you're not suggesting tilling 5 acres are you - that seems like a lot to till, but I don't know?

With everyone's advice, maybe I can build a golf course after this experience.

Is this realistic to accomplish over a week of vacation (or 2 weeks)? Thanks again for everyone's advice.

Chompin' at the bit

Leef

 

[WVBill]

Leef:

My situation is similar to yours. We built our house on 3.75 Ac of ex-pasture land as did our neighbors with 3 - 6 Ac each. This will be the third year for most of us. None of us has completely renovated our land as you are planning. Most of us just mow the native grass/weeds/whatever at about 2 or 3" high and have fairly respectable looking (at least from a distance) "lawns". The one neighbor who has put the most into it ran a drag harrow over the front half of his land to loosen it up then hand-raked all the "thatch". Then he overseeded and spread straw mulch and fertilized. His grass doesn't look THAT much better than mine and with the fertilizer, he has to mow twice a week!
I think this spring I'll try weed and feed on the areas up close to the house to try to cut down the weeds and give the grasses a chance.

You said that you don't expect to make it golf course quality but with all the work you're planning to put in, I suspect it will be pretty close. Best of luck.

WVBill

 

[alexcocco]

wow you seem to be doing a lot of soil prep with all that dragging and plowing and dragging and dragging, my lawn started as a lot of neglected pasture, i started with round up times two, about a two weeks apart for the tough field weeds, applied on warm dry days with no rain expected. then tilled in two directions times two, the used a land scaping rake to smooth it off and planted the seed with some starter fertilizer, covered with straw. that was 15 years ago, about every two to three years i add some broad leaf killer over the ground to keep out the field weeds, small amounts of fertilizer, cut it about 2-3 inches. smooth enough to be pleasing to the eye. did this with a garden tractor, and a lot of elbow grease.

alex

 

[Leef]

WVBill and alexcocco,

Thanks for your reply.Maybe I am planning too much work. I like being on the tractor but I have to be realistic too. I probably could just try to work and improve the pasture (it's not that bad looking when it's mowed) , but I really would like to have it smooth. Right now it's rough to walk on with moles, ant hills, lumps and bumps etc. As I said above, that's kind of a pet peeve for me. I'd like the kids to be able to run and play w/o tripping or twisting anything. Is there a good way to flatten/smooth out the pasture (perhaps just mowing regularly) as it is? I've never used a roller; If I did, how heavy should it be? I've seen landscaping roller/pulverizer/aerators but don't know if this would be a good use for one (maybe I could rent one).

My fear is that I would do all that work and the soil would be too "worked" and soft at the surface then settle out lumpy and bumpy again.

BTW is it feasible to till the whole 5 acres?

I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Leef

 

[GrantMO]

Leef,

My neighbor prepared his yard by discing with a 9N followed by a lot of smoothing with a harrow pulled by his JD garden tractor. After seeding, covering with straw,fertilizing and lots of watering his grass looks decent with one exception of a flat compacted spot in the backyard left over from the original excavation work. I think he'll probably need some topsoil because it's just a bare clay spot.
He continually works his lot with the harrow, often pulling it while mowing and has smoothed out the bumps considerably. I'm trying to find a harrow(s) to pull behind my tractor.

Also, does anyone have experience with horse manure as fertilizer?

 

[Will]

I've been able to get pretty flat surfaces by doing the job in two stages. In the first stage, I did 90% of the work - plowing, removing rocks and roots, grading and then I chained a 2 x 6 x 10 to the bottom of my box blade and got everything nice and smooth looking. Finally I planted winter rye and admired the results. By spring things didn't look quite as great. There were all sorts of depressions in spots that previously looked level, but which were filled with less compressed soil. This turned out not to be a problem. I dragged the 2x6x10 around again and then planted the permanent grass (bermuda). The results were excellent. I say were because some idiot has been driving through my property and doing doughnuts lately, but that is a different issue.

 

[Kevin_mc]

Leef, your plan sounds pretty ambitious and will probably look real nice. You didn't mention your plans for irrigation. I remember what a chore it was to water 1.5 acres of new lawn and how much hose I had to move.

As for tilling 5 acres, it's just a therapeutic as mowing although a lot slower /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Kevin Mc

 

[cowboydoc]

Grant,
Horse manure won't hurt it at all and is good fertilizer. Just make sure you don't clump it together or it may burn the grass in that spot. I have a little manure spreader that I pull over the yard in the spring and then in the fall again. Does wonders for the grass. In the pastures I use the large spreader and my grass always grows really well.

 

[alexcocco]

Re: overseeding

leef,
forgot to tell you after the first year i overseeded the lawn in the spring, that seemed to fill in any bald spots and brought the grass on thicker than i think it would have been. also added granular fertilizer that spring and the next, i have used the granular type fertilizer and the liquid types both seemed to work equally as well.

alex

 

[Benson]

Re: overseeding

Leef,
I put my lawn in last summer. I only did about an acre and a half around the house and left the rest of the fields natural. Most of the area I planted had been "leveled" with a dozer, leaving pretty deep furrows. I talked with some landscape guys about ways to plant, and ended up renting a bobcat with a rockhound (landscape rake) attachment. With one pass, about 4 feet would be leveled, rock picked, and the top inch or so of soil tilled for a seed bed. Our soil in Western PA is pretty rocky, so this saved a ton of raking. Since most of the area was pretty compacted before starting, I didn't need to roll much of it. For the softer areas, run a gill harrow over it to compact, and there won't be as much settling over the next year. The mistakes I made-leave extra time (I did everything in a weekend and stopped having fun pretty early) and 2, don't lift the bucket of the bobcat too high when the rockhound is attached and the bucket is full of rocks. Sorry I don't have a picture of that, but it would have to go in the stupid tractor tricks thread.

John