Lengevity and reliability of various transmission types

[Specop_007]

So I'm browsing various tractor brands looking for a supplemental tractor. Right now I have a MF 35 which is one heck of a workhorse. Problem is no loader, no ROPS and no PS.

So if I get something newer I can get a loader, PS and ROPS. Call it Dads New Toy since I live too far out to have a Vette. That and I could put the kids on it and let them do the work while I play!

But on the transmission. I've used all the various kinds at one point or another, so I understand how they work. But I've never owned one to get a feel for the longevity and reliability of them. I've owned the standard 3 or 4 geared hi/lo setups but always had to stop and clutch to shift. They are drop dead reliable and would probably outlast the owner if used correctly.

But what about the newer technologies? Just how reliable are the Power Shuttles and Hydrostats for long term hard work applications? Could hydrostats till all day or would the units overheat and become problematic? Can Power Shuttles really handle the moving forward/reverse shifts for years on end without stressing and damaging the transmission?

I'm reluctant to go with the newer technologies because in my mind nothing is as reliable as a standard manual transmission. But maybe the newer transmission types are just as drop dead reliable and can handle long days of hard work.

TEA:
And I spelled Longevity wrong in the title. I'm not always a ******....just sometimes....

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have a 1984 model Yanmar with Powershift. It has 4 gears, hi and low range in each and then in each of those it has R, N, 1, 2 and 3. It shifts to all gears without manually clutching. They are commonly referred to as bullet prove transmissions. The hydraulic clutch makes sure the transmission is shifted prior to engagement of the clutch. I have actually accidently shifte from 1 to reverse with no damage unless you count me nearly going over the steering wheel when it went from 7 mph forward to about 5 in reverse almost instantly. They claim that it is easier on the clutch if you use the powershift than using the foot clutch also.

 

[Soundguy]

rops cost about 485$ for that MF tractor.. less if you live in a state that offeres incentives to add rops to older working tractors.

Power stering is available to refit that tractor.

MANY MANY loaders were made to fit or can be fit to that tractor.

As for reliability.. think about it like this.. the more complex it is.. the more maintenance it will want.

Sure.. you can get a powershift tranny and make it last 50+ years if you keep it adjusted, serviced and fed with clean oil and filters.

on the other hand.. if you take a machine and never maintain it or change the oil, it's gonna be hard on it.

plain jane gear trannies tend to hold up the best when maintenance drops down to the point of abuse.. mind you.. they still suffer.. they just have less to go wrong than say.. and HST or power shift / shuttle trans.

soundguy

 

[RoyJackson]

I have a collarshift (non-synchro) tranny on my 790. They're simple and quite robust as long as you don't ride the clutch (bad for any manual tranny) and you're willing to stop between gear shifts. I just prefer manual trannys, not that they're any better (but probably cheaper to fix if the transmission does break).
Actually, I cannot recall the last time I've heard of a transmission breaking (again, other then a clutch).
So, as long as you stick to a reliable brand of tractor, tranny selection should be based upon your usage.

 

[Baby Grand]

I'd say go try them all out at a dealship and decide what you like or dislike about the different types. HST if you want to sell in the near future. If you are a "buy and hold" personality (like me), then resale value shouldn't really be an issue. The reliability question is probably a wash if you take good care of your machines.

The only knock that I have heard on HST is the additional heat load to your cooling system. If you plan on doing a lot of ground engaging work in hot weather, then you might want to look at a shuttle shift type of GBX.

On the plus side, the HST will let you move at a crawl while keeping your engine & PTO at high speed, if you need to do one-pass sod busting with a tiller without having to shell out extra $ for an optional granny gear.

-Jim

 

[Specop_007]

I'd say go try them all out at a dealship and decide what you like or dislike about the different types. HST if you want to sell in the near future. If you are a "buy and hold" personality (like me), then resale value shouldn't really be an issue. The reliability question is probably a wash if you take good care of your machines.

The only knock that I have heard on HST is the additional heat load to your cooling system. If you plan on doing a lot of ground engaging work in hot weather, then you might want to look at a shuttle shift type of GBX.

On the plus side, the HST will let you move at a crawl while keeping your engine & PTO at high speed, if you need to do one-pass sod busting with a tiller without having to shell out extra $ for an optional granny gear.

-Jim

I understand how they work certainly. I'm asking more about technical aspects of the units, not preferences in operations from owners.

I'm concerned about the reliability of the various units. HST is the cats meow for controllability of the machine. However I dont know how solid they are if you do a lot of ground engaging work. I dont know if anyone knows for sure, as I'm not sure if the larger machines (200+ HP) are even made with Hydro transmissions.

Without question a standard gear transmission can run all day with a heavy disc breaking new ground and wont even blink. But can hydro's do the same? I dont know.... But it is something I would take into account in buying a machine.

I buy and hold. I mean until the thing falls to pieces, and then I'll pay to get it duct taped back together.

So if a manual unit will last "forever" and a hydrostat needs rebuilt every 6 years if its worked hard the decision is easy as to which to buy....But maybe the hydrostat is just as solid..... I dont know.

 

[dfkrug]

Without question a standard gear transmission can run all day with a heavy disc breaking new ground and wont even blink. But can hydro's do the same? I dont know.... But it is something I would take into account in buying a machine.

Well, more and more large and powerful bulldozers use HSTs and they have
proven to be reliable. You DO need to keep the oil clean and full, however,
just like in an engine. You don't see HSTs in large wheeled tractors, prob
because they are for continuous AG-type work. (I am not a farmer, but
I do see these big tractors at the shows and ask a lot of questions.)

As for our CUTs, a strong case can be made that an HST will last longer
than a dry foot-operated clutch, depending on the owner's clutch use.
These clutches are known to be wear items, and eventually the tractor will
have to be split to replace it. I am impressed by the durability of the two
HST units I have rebuilt. Both were in good shape internally, despite other
parts of the tractor's drivetrains having failed. I am a big fan of HSTs, but
I also think that an advanced gear-type trans that uses wet clutches
(like Kubota's Glide Shift Trans) is better suited for plowing or mowing large
areas.

Does your Fergie have the torque converter tranny? I have driven one of
those and wonder why you don't see it anymore.

 

[jenkinsph]

As far as holding up in ground engaging work I think most heavy construction equipment has been hydrostatic for several decades. Just look what are being used in most dozers and articulated loaders. Clean filters and clean oil make a big difference in the hst trannies. So far I have never had an overheating issue with the hydrostats or PR transmissions.

Back in the early 1960's when the automatic transmissions were coming of age people had more problems with automatics. Today most of these problems have been resolved and as an indication I don't see near as many transmission shops around. So today I don't see where a standard transmission has much of a leg up in dependability compared to 50 yearss ago.

 

[lawn_king]

Hydrostatic trannys have come a long way in the last decade! I ran international gear machines from 1978 to 1999. No complaints on the gear machines at all, they are simple,reliable and rarely fail! For the last decade we have been running kubota hydros, Great machines, i could never go back to gear!

 

[neucam]

My 2 cents, with an inexperienced driver or a tractor with a loader the hydo is the best. Best pulling power is from gears. We had gear drives on the farm years ago and they are not much different than some semi truck transmissions, double clutch on the go and you do not have to stop to change gears, but you have to know how to do it, But I did it at 13 years old and none of our tractors I drove ever had tranny problems. Glad to here the hydros are getting better and better, but they do eat a % of your available power.