LEO's, can you explain this to me please

EddieWalker · Jan 13, 2014

In my early 20's, I was arrested several times for my behavior while out drinking. In every case, I was able to quickly get my hands in front of me by pulling them under my legs. I don't know if I could do it now, I'm about 20 pounds heavier. I'm sure the alcohol had a lot to do with it too!!!

Not knowing the details of how the pistol was fired, I can easily see a variety of ways that it could have happened with the result of a head shot. For me, the most obvious is that it fell to his feet and went off when it hit the floor of the car. Or while squirming around in the back seat, it fell away from his body and went off resulting in a head shot.

The fact that the cop missed the gun is what bothers me, the gun shot seems simple enough to explain.

Eddie

Western · Jan 13, 2014

I'd bet you he was cuffed in the front and possibly had the weapon in his socks/ankle area. Being a youngster with a basically a nonviolent warrant, I bet the officer was lax. Evidence would be the weapon laying on the floorboard in front of the body odds of it falling there cuffed in the back, are almost 0.

Another likely "possibility", is a weapon left from a previous detainee, I have found any number of things doing a shift change search of vehicle seats, but generally drugs, or paraphernalia. I think that would be less likely though.

MossRoad · Jan 13, 2014

k0ua said:
My guess would be that he was skinny enough and limber enough to bring his hands in front. I have seen women that could do it, but I have never seen a man that could, but I know they exist. I guess you were living proof. Like you I cannot really know what happened, just guessing, as I haven't seen any coroners reports, or photographs.

Yeah, well, I was not a very manly man as a young teen. :laughing: I believe I was about 4'9" when I graduated from 8th grade. I made it to 4'11" by the end of my freshman year in high school. By the time I graduated from high school I was 6' but only 135. Pretty skinny. However, I married a good cook and now I'm at deuce and a quarter. :dance1:

MossRoad · Jan 13, 2014

I'm no gun expert, and I don't know what type of .45 he allegedly had, but if it was a 1911, wouldn't it have the safety that is activated by the flesh between your thumb and fore-finger? I have tried and cannot for the life of me squeeze that grip with my hands behind my back and still point the gun anywhere near my head, let alone my chin. I guess if I could get my hands to the side as I mentioned above, I may be able to do that. But I'd have to go back to my skinny days to be able to do that. Anyhow, sure is a mystery. And sad for all involved, from the victims to the folks that had to clean it up, the cops involved, families and even to the kid himself. That's awful young to die. No winners here.

k0ua · Jan 13, 2014

MossRoad said:
I'm no gun expert, and I don't know what type of .45 he allegedly had, but if it was a 1911, wouldn't it have the safety that is activated by the flesh between your thumb and fore-finger? I have tried and cannot for the life of me squeeze that grip with my hands behind my back and still point the gun anywhere near my head, let alone my chin. I guess if I could get my hands to the side as I mentioned above, I may be able to do that. But I'd have to go back to my skinny days to be able to do that. Anyhow, sure is a mystery. And sad for all involved, from the victims to the folks that had to clean it up, the cops involved, families and even to the kid himself. That's awful young to die. No winners here.

Yes the 1911 has a grip safety, that even some people with "skinny" hands, in other words, not much "meat" between their thumb and forefinger, the web of the hand, have trouble disengaging this automatic grip safety. The Idea is that the gun is still on safe until this safety is automatically disengaged by a proper grip on the gun. In the last few years many manufactures have added a bump or hump to this grip safety because some people just can't make the gun work reliably without this feature. The fact that I have always been a little on the pudgy side, means I have never had a problem with the activation of this safety.

smstonypoint · Jan 13, 2014

MossRoad said:
I have tried and cannot for the life of me squeeze that grip with my hands behind my back and still point the gun anywhere near my head, let alone my chin.

Are you doing this in public?

Steve

MossRoad · Jan 13, 2014

smstonypoint said:
Are you doing this in public?

Steve

Yeah, I did it down at the 7/11 with my ski mask on.... it was cold. :cool2:

I re-read my post and it actually sounds like I was doing it with a .45. Yikes. Of course not. I put my hands behind my back and tried it with my .22.... much safer.

k0ua · Jan 13, 2014

MossRoad said:
Yeah, I did it down at the 7/11 with my ski mask on.... it was cold. :cool2:

I re-read my post and it actually sounds like I was doing it with a .45. Yikes. Of course not. I put my hands behind my back and tried it with my .22.... much safer.

Would that just be Excedrin headache number 37?

dmccarty · Jan 13, 2014

When I was younger, I could easily get my handcuffed arms from behind my back and to my front by slipping them under my legs. It would have been easy to do in the back of a car. What I can't remember is WHY I was handcuffed and trying to do this! :shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing: As one gets older, if you do not maintain flexibility you loose this ability. Not sure I could do this today. I think it helps to have arms longer than your torso which sounds like I had some ape like characteristics.

:confused3::shocked::laughing::laughing::laughing:

I think at this point, it seems pretty obvious that the officer missed the pistol but the final report has not been released. The pistol model has not been mentioned that I have seen, and even if it was a 1911 style 45, once his hands were in front of his body he would have been able to operate the weapons. According to released reports, the pistol was on the subjects body and not left in the patrol car. Other officers said the officer did search the teenager so it will be interesting to know, if possible, WHERE the pistol was hidden. Was it in his crotch?

What has been reported is that the teenage was suicidal but this apparently was not told to the officer and the officer's call seems to have been about a runaway teenage. At some point, the trespass warrant was discovered. No excuse for not patting down the suspect correctly, but it might show the officer's mindset. What also seem to have been the case, is the teenager was robbing houses but this was not known to the officer but if the teenager thought he was going to jail, especially because of the burglary's, that might get to the kids state of mind.

We just have to wait until the final report to get more information.

Later,
Dan