Let's Talk Flail Mowers......Again

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Awhile back I started a thread about flail mowers called "Let's Talk Flail Mowers". The thread took on a life of it's own, and I didn't participate much because I backed out of the flail mower market. I have always been a RC guy. Well, I'm back into the thought process of possibility buying one. The previous thread is so long, I don't think I want to go back and read the whole thing, so maybe you flail guys can just provide me with the cliff notes.

I recently purchased a new to me Kubota B7510 4WD to use on the five acres where I live. The 7510 is a gear tractor with 23 engine HP and 17 PTO HP. On the Agrisupply website it says that the 59" Caroni is for tractors 20-40HP. It doesn't specify whether that is engine or PTO HP. So here's the question; will my little tractor handle that 59" model? I will be cutting pasture type land, fairly hilly, no saplings just grass and weeds. up to a maximum of about 18" in height.

Also, I would like comments from the newer flail users. I think I remember some frustration with the belts and maybe some other issues. Am I headed down the right path? Will I likely be happy if I purchase one? Give me the good, the bad and the ugly. Thumbs up or thumbs down?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Very new flail owner/user here, just got a Caroni a few weeks ago. So far I'm 100% happy with it, and do not miss the rotary cutter I had for 3 1/2 years previously. But I'm so new to it I think you would want to listen more to people who've had them for at least a year or two.

 

[john4153]

New user input is good, but before I spend >$2000, I would like to know about how it operates 3 or more years down the road too.

John

 

[greg_g]

will my little tractor handle that 59" model? I will be cutting pasture type land, fairly hilly, no saplings just grass and weeds. up to a maximum of about 18" in height.

Not knowing what specific part of MTN you're in, but I'm guessing your pasture may look like mine. If true, I don't think you have enough tractor for a 59" flail. Case in point: I have a 74" flail behind a 45hp tractor (~39 PTO hp), and the belts slip and smoke and shed trying to get through the worst of that stuff. It also struggles through cerise lespedeza when it gets to the brush stage.

My 39 PTO hp turning 74 inches of flail works out to about 6.3 hp per foot. Yours computes to less than 3.5 hp per foot. Not that using a flail for pasture maintenance isn't a good thing. But you simply can't let the pasture get out in front of you. So if you've got 18" crabgrass, you might want to take it out with a RC first. Then from that point tackle it with the flail before it gets outa control.

//greg//

 

[nwbearcat]

Not knowing what specific part of MTN you're in, but I'm guessing your pasture may look like mine. If true, I don't think you have enough tractor for a 59" flail. Case in point: I have a 74" flail behind a 45hp tractor (~39 PTO hp), and the belts slip and smoke and shed trying to get through the worst of that stuff. It also struggles through cerise lespedeza when it gets to the brush stage.

My 39 PTO hp turning 74 inches of flail works out to about 6.3 hp per foot. Yours computes to less than 3.5 hp per foot. Not that using a flail for pasture maintenance isn't a good thing. But you simply can't let the pasture get out in front of you. So if you've got 18" crabgrass, you might want to take it out with a RC first. Then from that point tackle it with the flail before it gets outa control.

//greg//

Sounds like you have plenty of tractor...but not tight enough belts. If you didn't have enough tractor, you'd bog the tractor before you slipped the belts. You're applying more hp than the belts can handle. I'm assuming that you're talking about belts on the mower.

I picked up a 88" Flail a year or 2 ago, and for outlot mowing, do not regret it a bit. I use it basically on an extended yard area. I had previously did it with a sickle mower, then a 6' rotary rough cut mower. The flail is no comparison. Better/smoother/shorter cut. It takes out my tracks, both because it scoops up the knocked down grass, and it's wider than my 6' RC. It's got a scrappy looking belt, but it keeps going. I've sharpened the blades 1x

 

[psj12]

I have also had the belts slip on my TM1900 Coroni. It did it only once when I ran over a large pile of cut grass left from a brush hog piling it up. It sucked up the pile and stalled the rotor. I saw smoke from the belt cover and immediatly hit the clutch. Raising the mower and releasing the clutch cleared the jam and I mowed on.

I have heard about married belts where all three are integrated into one wide belt. Where would one look for such a thing? Has anyone done this with their Coroni? If so, what PN and manufacture did you use?

 

[leonz]

You can buy the web belts from a truck shop, big farm equipment dealer or a NAPA, or online too so that is easy.

I too, think that your belts were too loose and they need to to be tightened up a bit.

It should only have an eighth to three sixteenths of an inch of slack when the belt is tensioned with the snubber pulley.

If you decide to use single V belts you can buy the gates green belts
which are rated for shock loads and heavy use or you can buy the toothed Cog belts which very strong in construction and making sure the belts are from the same lot number as they are made in batches no matter the belt chosen as a replacement.

Oh and all V belts are metric like all bearings and they are a B size belting for the pulley width and depth.

a friction disc slip clutch PTO shaft will be a worthwhile purchase for the flail mower too.

 

[leonz]

New user input is good, but before I spend >$2000, I would like to know about how it operates 3 or more years down the road too.

John

FWIW we have been using our 48 inch towed flail for 30+ years with only main bearings replaced after 26 years and gas engine parts including
throttle springs and cables, changing the fuel tank from a 6 quart to an 8 quart because the soldered base plate for the shut off valve developed a hairline crack and leaked.

As long as you keep the rotor greased and not over greased they will last and last.

I grease it either before or after I mow depending on the time I have, and no more than 7-8 pumps per rotor bearing to purge the old grease and spin the rotor by hand as it has a slip clutch which makes it easy to do.

The red grease from napa is fine for the rotor bearings.

 

[j845125]

After reading the long post, I bought a 6 foot Del Morino flail. I use it to mow what I used to use a finish mower on and what I cut with the BH. I've mowed grass and weeds that were 3 foot tall without a problem, my Cub's 25 PTO hp power it fine. The only thing that takes some getting used to is, with Y blades, it leaves little grooves in the grass. The best thing about it is that it's a snake killer, if the knives don't dice them up, the roller will flatten 'em. That, in itself, makes the flail worth it!!! I can also get to things that I couldn't with a BH because it doesn't stick out near as far. Steep banks I can back down without it rising up on the wheel at the bottom. One mower does everything, decent cut, dead snakes, more maneuverable... What's not to like???

Oh yeah. There are alot of knives to sharpen. I use an open end and a pneumatic wrench to get them on and off. Doesn't take long that way.

 

[leonz]

If you want to eliminate the grooves you can raise the cutting height or not if you want to retain the snake killing ability:laughing:

 

[beppington]

After reading the long post, I bought a 6 foot Del Morino flail.

About what did you pay for that, please?

 

[j845125]

$2500

 

[leonz]

I hope you arent killing the good snakes that eat rodents and bugs are you?

or are you not selective in the snake killing department.

 

[IslandTractor]

New user input is good, but before I spend >$2000, I would like to know about how it operates 3 or more years down the road too.

John

After 3 years of pasture mowing and bush hogging with my flail I can report that it works fine, is aging gracefully, has required one new set of belts and that I have replaced a dozen or so knives/clevis's. Operating cost is probably more than for a bush hog (doubt I would have done anything to a hog in three years based on prior experience) and that most likely a rear finish or MMM would have been at least as expensive on blades as we have a lot of rocks (all the flail blades were lost on rocks). However, the versatility of the flail has been worth the extra money over the bush hog in maintenance costs as I now use one mower and have gotten rid of both the finish mower and bush hog. That is on top of the far superior safety, noise levels and manuverability of the flail vs bush hog.

 

[IslandTractor]

I recently purchased a new to me Kubota B7510 4WD to use on the five acres where I live. The 7510 is a gear tractor with 23 engine HP and 17 PTO HP. On the Agrisupply website it says that the 59" Caroni is for tractors 20-40HP. It doesn't specify whether that is engine or PTO HP. So here's the question; will my little tractor handle that 59" model? I will be cutting pasture type land, fairly hilly, no saplings just grass and weeds. up to a maximum of about 18" in height.?

I had a similar tractor, Kioti CK20, and was pondering the exact same question for the same basic purposes plus some bush hogging. However, before I had to choose between the 48 and 59 inch flails I ended up changing tractors so the question was moot. Since then I've used a flail on a larger tractor and therefore don't have direct experience to answer your question. However, if I were in your shoes, I would buy the 59 inch flail. You will need to slow down some in 18 inch lush grass but otherwise it should handle it fine. My experience says that a flail's hp requirements are closer to that of an equivalent finish mower than bush hog especially for grass cutting. With my CK20 I used a 48 inch bush hog and a 60 inch RFM both of which were fine. I'd get the 59" Caroni if I were doing it again. The one issue you will need to address is that the 59" Caroni is set up for finish mowing rather than rough cut (like my TM1900B). I would suggest trying it out as set up by the factory and if necessary remove some of the blades for pasture work (obviously keeping the rotor balanced). If you don't mind waiting for a special order I believe AgriSupply will order you a "B" style 59 inch flail mower (TM1500B) as Caroni does make them but they are not routinely imported.

 

[KRBrouwer]

Awhile back I started a thread about flail mowers called "Let's Talk Flail Mowers". The thread took on a life of it's own, and I didn't participate much because I backed out of the flail mower market. I have always been a RC guy. Well, I'm back into the thought process of possibility buying one. The previous thread is so long, I don't think I want to go back and read the whole thing, so maybe you flail guys can just provide me with the cliff notes.

I recently purchased a new to me Kubota B7510 4WD to use on the five acres where I live. The 7510 is a gear tractor with 23 engine HP and 17 PTO HP. On the Agrisupply website it says that the 59" Caroni is for tractors 20-40HP. It doesn't specify whether that is engine or PTO HP. So here's the question; will my little tractor handle that 59" model? I will be cutting pasture type land, fairly hilly, no saplings just grass and weeds. up to a maximum of about 18" in height.


Also, I would like comments from the newer flail users. I think I remember some frustration with the belts and maybe some other issues. Am I headed down the right path? Will I likely be happy if I purchase one? Give me the good, the bad and the ugly. Thumbs up or thumbs down?

I have the TM1900B, and have had it for 3 years. I have gone through only 1 set of belts (original), and have it on a NH T2220 (35 hp). Previously I had a Woods 5 ft finish mower, and the Caroni spins easier and seem to put less of a load on the NH than the finish mower. If I were you, I would go with the larger mower.

Ken

 

[tatra805]

flail owner for a year now and i agree with the above, go for the bigger model.

Once you have a flail you'll never let the bush grow as high as before and therefore you wont have to slow down on your second,third etc.. pass.

On light duty cutting you'll want to increase your ground speed to get the job done faster but if you want to keep the cut quality the same you'll find out you cannot increase the PTO speed enough without compromising your mower life

So the biggest time saving will come from the width of the cutter, and that each time you cut that certain area.

 

[Bl8tant]

I recently bought a used 78" cut John Deere 25A flail mower for $500. I put all new finish cut blades, hangers, clevis, etc on it. I also replaced both rotor bearings and one roller bearing. Painted it, and put on new decals. All told, I have around $900 (and about 20-30 hours) in it and looks like new again. Out of curiosity I priced a new one (it's still in production) on the JD website....$4700!

So how did it perform? I love this thing! It sounds like a giant vacuum cleaner (much quieter than our brush hog), the cut quality is amazing. In moderately tall grass it looks like it was mowed with a riding mower, but without any clumps or winrows. The cut quality in short grass looks pretty good, but not as clean as taller grass. I have not tried it out in some of the brushy areas, as I don't want to damage the new blades (yet).

The mower is used with a Kubota L3830 (38hp). Even in dense 12" grass going up a steep hill, my RPMs barely dropped.

For mowing large areas of dense grass and LIGHT brush, I can't think of anything better. This has been one of best purchases I've made.

 

[Kiotisooner]

Just bought a Befco Hurricane H80 90" cut for my Kioti tractor. The mower was used as a demonstrator and had been setting for a few years. All the blades still had all the paint on the cutting edges. The paint was oxidized but was never used except for two times, 10 minutes each time. New I was quoted $6900 by two different dealers. This dealer was getting out of the tractor business and wanted to get rid of it. He wanted $4,000.00 I offered $2500.00, got it for $2800.00 out the door. It is very smooth and quiet. My DK50 HST pulls it easily in high. Very pleased with Befco.