letter back form mahindra

Woodbeef · May 9, 2003

Hey Kiohio,

I've been thinking along the same lines as you. I remember seeing MSRPs on some of the tractors on the Mahindra site awhile back,and they do have the dealer locator on it too. So the official reply must not be talking about the same things,as were asked.

Anonymous Poster · May 10, 2003

I don't believe I had made a mistake when I asked Mahindra for a list of their dealer locations. And their response was that that was a propitary list. Also I did not ask the Manufactuer for the dealers actual cost of the tractor. I asked for the suggested list price. of the tractor the 2810. Mahindra ignored my request for list price of the tractor and they stated that there were many justifyable reasons for dealers to charge such differient prices they also stated that the dealers set their own prices.The marketing deepartment at Mahindra asked me where I got the low quote I told them. I assumed I would get a reply back from Mahindra.
I guess it wasn't that important to them to replly back to a prospective tractor buyer.?? David /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

RanchMan · May 10, 2003

This whole thing just doesn't make sense.

Their own web site will generate a list for you by zip code yet they "refuse" to send you a list by mail and fail to mention that you can conduct a search for dealers on their web site? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I’m not sure what is going on, but my gut says that either (a) there was a mis-communication at some point (do not know on who’s behalf), or (b) that whoever responded was new to the company and hasn’t been properly trained to deal with inquiries. The whole “can’t reveal the dealers who sell our products” thing sounds very, VERY, wrong - so again, I suspect there are deeper issues in this scenario that we aren’t aware of.

In regards to price, I fail to see the big “mystery” or problem. Different companies market their goods differently. Some methods you may like/agree with while others you don't. If having a MSRP is that important to you and Mahindra USA is unable to provide you one, I suggest you look for a different brand tractor - perhaps Kioti or Century can provide you with a MSRP. (I know Deere can.)

Of course, getting bent out of shape about not being able to get a MSRP number makes absolutely no sense to me. Why? MSRP is a completely bogus number to begin with! It represents a desired charge to the consumer that results in a specific profit margin for the dealer. Yes, yes, you can approximate dealer cost by “backing in” via MSRP sometimes, but it is an estimate at best and can be very misleading since not every company (even within similar products) uses the same percentage when calculating MSRP profit margin. I’ve seen exactly the same product with exactly the same options put out by exactly the same plant with exactly the same brand differ in “official” MSRP by 25% !!!

The point is that MSRP is a bogus, fictitious, meaningless number that has nothing to do with value of a purchase. Compare similar products between brands (i.e. Deere vs. Mahindra vs. Kioti vs. etc...) and then identical products between providers (i.e. 2810 vs. 2810). “Value” as I see it will lie where you get the most capability for the least money. (Yes, yes, “dealer relationship”, “resale”, etc. etc. have different “value quotients” to different people - so folks please don’t come back with those arguments.).

I (like a lot of others) spent a lot of time on the phone and a lot of time driving around looking for the “best price” and then made my purchase. (other folks do exactly the same thing with other brands.) Who cares what the MSRP was? Based on your earlier post, based on the dealers you’ve spoken with, it sounds like you have already found the “best deal” in monetary terms with that substantially discounted dealer - that is if you haven’t shot yourself (and others) in the foot (e.g. he gets in trouble with Mahindra for selling for so much below other dealers because you “spoke” with Mahindra USA directly. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

It certainly wouldn’t hurt to go further out to find other dealers (i.e. use other zip codes) as you might find a better deal (I searched within a radius of 500 miles of my home.) I calculated cost of driving there & back and factored that in to the discount so that I was comparing “apples to apples” with regards to price. Bottom line is that I went about 250 miles (1 way) to get my “good deal.”

It boils down to this - If you feel you have been mistreated and don't like Mahindra’s marketing method or selling structure, send them a letter stating such and that you will no longer be considering purchase of a Mahindra. That way you can be done with it -- but don’t shoot yourself in the foot by obsessing about a number that is fictitious to begin with.

Bird · May 10, 2003

( Of course, getting bent out of shape about not being able to get a MSRP number makes absolutely no sense to me. Why? MSRP is a completely bogus number to begin with! )

I understand your point of view and it has a great deal of validity . . . however, I also understand why people like to know a manufacturer's "suggested" retail price. I'll just give you one example of what I'm talking about. I don't know what they're doing now, but several years ago quite a number of RV manufacturers provided "window stickers" with each unit similar to the auto industry. It was then up to the individual dealers as to whether or not they displayed those stickers and I have personally known of dealers who chose to "copy" those stickers while changing the numbers to indicate a retail price several thousand dollars over the manufacturer's price.

On the other hand, some RV manufacturers do not (or at least did not a few years ago) provide such stickers and will not quote any price at all to a potential consumer; simply tell them to contact a dealer. I visited the factory of one such manufacturer in the northwest and inquired about prices of a particular model of motorhome and of course they refused to tell me anything. I visited the nearest dealer and found his price to be a little over $80,000. Less than a year later, I happened to be in a dealership in Texas and a customer was there with serious electrical problems with a motorhome of that model. The dealer had been on the telephone with the factory off and on for two days and they still did not have a solution when I left. Now the customer was upset about his electrical problems, but he was even more upset by the fact that he had paid $120,000 for that motorhome in another state and the Texas dealership would have sold it to him new for under $90,000.

So . . ., like they say, there's two sides to every story.

RanchMan · May 10, 2003

Bird -

Interesting story, but I'm not quite sure how it goes against anything I put in my last post.

Forgetting all the electrical aggravation, Joe Blow (we'll call him JB for short /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) spent $120K on the RV. JB drives to Texas and finds the exact same RV for $80K by chance when he pulls in to get a problem fixed and gets "irked" because he "overpaid". What was MSRP? $100K? $150K? $82K?

Let’s for argument say that the MSRP (if it had one) was 100K. Well - JB would have probably thought “$120K and the factory says $100K - hmmmm - bad deal.” Maybe. Maybe not.

The whole point is that the manufacturer’s suggested retail price is just that - a suggestion. Some things sell well below MSRP (your average car.) Some sell well above MSRP (remember when the Mazda Miata came out and you couldn’t even think about one unless you were willing to pay the dealership $10K over MSRP?) Even today, some cars command very close if not a premium at or above MSRP. (i.e. it wasn’t just a “fluke” with the Miata). In other words, it is the marketplace that determines what a good or service sells for, not some bogus number like MSRP.

What it sounds like to me is that JB screwed up and didn't shop around before he plunked down his cash and now has a bad case of buyer’s remorse. Other than the electrical problems ( /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif ), up until the point when he found out he had been rooked for $40K he felt just fine and dandy regarding the purchase being a “fair” one.

While it is true that no dealership generally gives their "bottom dollar" price over the phone, JB could have called around (even to Texas) and gotten a much better idea of how much a "good deal" would have been - and a bogus number like MSRP would have had zero effect on the price he paid or negotiations. Quite simply, JB's was lazy and didn’t spend the effort required to research his purchase before hand. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do a little searching to find dealers nor does it take hundreds of dollars in long distance bills to find out what is a "good" price vs. a "bad" price. Do some dealers take advantage of folks? Yes - unfortunately. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif BUT, that doesn't lessen the buyers responsibility to be a "smart shopper."
What's the old saying - I think some foreigner came up with - Caveat emptor? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yes, if someone wants to be taken advantage of, it is certainly possible to find someone willing to do it - but to rely on a number as meaningless as MSRP for one’s monetary salvation? Errr - not a wise move in my book.

DK35vince · May 10, 2003

Ranchman,
I never even looked a MSRP's when shopping tractors.
I shopped multiple brands and multiple dealers within an 80 radius until I got the most tractor with the most features for the money spent.And do to my reserching I believe that is exactly what I got.

Bird · May 10, 2003

( remember when the Mazda Miata came out and you couldn’t even think about one unless you were willing to pay the dealership $10K over MSRP )

Yep, and when Isuzu came out with the Impulse Turbo in 1985 the local dealer wanted $5k over MSRP and just less than 2 years ago, a local Ford dealer wanted $15k over MSRP for the newest version of the Ford Thunderbird. And that's fine if people want to pay that. I'm simply saying that a MSRP "may" (and of course may not) help prevent someone from making a mistake they'll regret. In other words, just one more little piece of information, which taken alone doesn't mean much, but when taken with whatever other information may be gathered might help.

And I wasn't contradicting anything you said, only that in my opinion it's a little bit of information that's nice to have.

Anonymous Poster · May 13, 2003

You said hydrostatic.. hydros cost few thousand more then a manual. Maybe there were options that you didnt notice like a loader on it or something. Not to discourage you from buying a Mahindra, but if your dealer is too far away then you will have trouble if and when your Mahindra breaks down.

Anonymous Poster · May 15, 2003

I got a post back form some texas mahindra dealer on the 2810 . I don't rember where the dealer was. But what they said is that they can't sell the 2810 to me in California. Bacause it won't pass California EPA standards. I believe I read the quotes of like for like items both hydro both with loader included both with box scraper both with backoe.
I do think I would get better warantee service If I bought the tractor locally. One member suggested that the price differience could of been between a high volume low margin dealer and a low volume high margin dealer. I choose to believe this is where the price differience came from.
David.

MadReferee · May 19, 2003

For what it's worth,

entering a zip and finding every dealer within xx number of miles is a no brainer from a software standpoint. You can purchase a list of every US and Canadian zip that includes a latitude and longitude of its post office. Using this info it is relatively easy to calculate the "as the crow flies" distance between 2 points (post offices). I have a current client that I did this software for and they are using it for dealer referrals from a call center.