Letting others ride 4 wheel bikes on my property

[Tanberry]

Lawsuits have to do with individual decisions by people. I hate that we are all lawsuit wary.

Wayne I agree with your statment. The reality today is they most people will sue to pay the bill's incurred . The decision to sue is normally made by the insurence company that has to take the hit. Why risk it ?

 

[Obed]

I have a similar situation except permission hasn't been asked. We have a great property for 4 wheeling - woods with large trees, bluffs, hollows, mountain stream and river. I would love to share it with those who would appreciate it. However, the liability is just too great - and that's unfortunate.

We don't live on the property and can't oversee it. This past weekend we saw 4 wheeler tracks where the rider was spinning out while going around a sharp curve. The 4 wheeler was going so fast around the bend that the tracks ran off the road. In addition the road was torn up.

The reality is we all know what kids are like. How many of us are lucky to be alive after our youth? You put 2 boys together and their brains shut down and cause them to do crazy things. Combine that behavior with a 4-wheeler without a parent around and it becomes real dangerous.

I'm all for letting boys be boys and not pampering them like sissies. However, after taking 18 months to think this through, I've decided I just can't risk our life savings knowing how "sue happy" this country has become.

We will soon be posting "No Trespassing" signs and will put up a gate and fence at the entrance.
Obed

 

[JoeinTX]

No, the liability and chances of mishap are too great.

It's your place and the individual asking should understand the situation you are in. If they give you any guff for refusing............to heck with them.


Folks+ATVs+beer+"favors" often wind up in someone injuring themselves and finding some way to fault someone else for the situation should it go all wrong.

Don't worry about making somebody mad........

 

[WayneB]

Did you get sued?? Were the parents angry at you?? Did the local Law blame you?? I'm not sure this applies as a reason to not let people on your property.... I lost a Son to a vehicle accident as a teen so I'm not making light of this situation. Just trying to find relevance. I allow people on my property for recreation all the time. I control the access but still allow it. I think we need to ask ourselves how many times have we entertained ourselves on other people's property. The risk of law suits has nothing to do with whether we should allow it. Lawsuits have to do with individual decisions by people. I hate that we are all lawsuit wary. It started in my area as people moved in from the city. Us country rednecks know it's on us if we hurt ourselves.

Richard, I don't believe I ever stated I was sued -- the parents were angry at me -- as for this applying as a reason to not let people on your property -- I believe it does mainly due to the intent of the reason for using the property. The father and I have stayed friends for over twenty-five years and never once has he mentioned any fault in his son’s action, but to blame himself. At which point it was very clear that it was not his fault either.

I would suspect that the key reason they wish to be on his property is to drive their four wheelers and not to just ingress and egress, but to speed around.

We have northern rednecks too, and I believe in respecting the rights of the landowner asking permission to cross, hunt, fish or otherwise use a mans land, but when it comes to people using it for off road vehicles I certainly take a stand against it. I happen to be lucky enough to live in the woods, have a thirty-five acre pond that we abut and nearly 1500 acres of wooded land that is not developed (yet).

I own 4-wheelers and snowmobiles and use them when possible. Around here snowmobiles have a better or at least an organized control group and most of us permit them to use our land for crossing. In my case it is not a matter of lawsuits it is plainly a misuse of the land and letting young people ride around unsupervised is just an open door to trouble.

 

[jinman]

About 15 years ago when I first bought my property, I had some kids ask me if they could come to my place to fish. I told them I didn't mind, but would like to talk to their parents about it. I also gave them rules such as they had to clean up any trash and they were not to start any campfires nor bring any vehicles onto my property unless they used my road. The kids were pre-teens and just seemed like good kids that wanted to have fun.

I never saw their parents, but I would see the kids from time to time and remind them that thier parents had never come to see me. As the kids got older, I realized they were avoiding me and coming onto my property by a round-about way where I could not see them. One time I found a 4-wheeler that had been hidden after using a secret trail they had made. I found the kids and told them remove the vehicle and not come onto my property by the trail.

Then, my neighbor told me that the kids (now mid-teens with several friends) were coming onto his property across my property and were using his fishing dock and making a mess. When confronted, they had told him I gave them permission.

A couple of months later, I discovered two boys and an older man fishing from my property and my neighbor's property. Their car was parked beside the county road and they had used their trail to come to my property. I told them all to leave. The older man turned out to be the father. His first reaction was to tell me that he had a right to be there, I couldn't believe how indignant this guy got and my neighbor who was witnessing all this just shook his head at the gall the fellow displayed. I told the fellow that I would let him discuss his position with the county sherriff, but that he was a trespasser without any rights on my property. I also suggested that he had entered my property right beside a no trespassing sign and used a trail I had specifically forbidden his kids to use.

So, at that point, he started calling me all the foul names he could come up with and began to walk away back across my property. I called him a tresspasser and noted that there were lots of witnesses there who would verify my story. To that he threatened me by saying he was leaving, but would be back to take care of me.

With that situation, I knew I should call the sherriff, and did. The guy was so stupid he went home and returned to sit along the county road in his car to intimidate me. He was still sitting there when the sherriff's deputy arrived. He quickly started his car and left as the deputy pulled down my driveway. I told the deputy about what had happened and he went to have a talk with the fellow. That was the end of my problems.

That's what happened with me, and I would suggest that what seems like an innocent use in the beginning can change into something ugly. Kids grow up and if they don't know you well, you will not be any kind of authority to them. I would not do it again.

 

[DUMBDOG]

I would not allow such uses on my property due to liability issues. The other issue is the damage to the property. After some use the amount of ruts that can be put into property is amazing.

The one item that no one has mentioned is the fact that he offered to give you in writing that the grandchildren would enter at their own risk. I am not a lawyer, however I believe that the grandfather is not in the legal position to do this. This would have to be done by the parents. These waivers even if done properly are not worth the paper that they are written on in a lot of cases.

 

[MarkV]

Well we all know that liabilities and law suits are a problem so without any more information I guess I would say no. However I hate it that a grandfather can’t arrange some outdoor recreation for his grandchildren. After all he was offering a liability release so he is being reasonable and it would indicate that he is also sensitive to the liability problems.

Before rejecting the request I would talk with my insurance agent and see what he/she had to say about a situation where you are not charging money, the kids would be supervised by an adult and you have a release from the parents. As was said, many states offer an owner protection from liability when there is not money involved and the land use is recreational. Your insurance agent should know for your state. If we all get too scared to let anyone on our property it will be the end of youthful memories in the outdoors many of us cherish. I can’t help but think if more kids had outdoor opportunities rather than spending their time on the streets or in the mall the future would look a bit brighter for everyone.

MarkV

 

[Champy]

I have to agree with Jinman.......once you let some on the property, others will join in who may not follow the rules and then you have a real mess. Think about it this way, which is decision is easier & safer: saying no right now, or trying to stop everyone from the surrounding homes who believe they are entitled to free access to your property because "everyone else does it".

You can't un-ring a bell once its struck...........

 

[Jagmandave]

I agree with the sentiments Mark is expressing, but the reality is that they won't be supervised all the time, and someone will get hurt, and then there will at the very least be hard feelings, and probably some legal action. The result will ultimately be that you'll have to post the land for no tresspassing anyway, and then gate the road, so I'd just go ahead and do it............

Just say no...........you don't even need to explain your reasons.

I bought my property in Jan about 5 years ago, and that April I was there clearing some brush and downed tree limbs when a car pulled up and some middle school aged boys got out with their fishing poles and headed for my pond. I was standing right there and no one even aknowledged my presense! I walked over to the boys (the car had already left) and asked them if they lived nearby (a couple of miles away) and why they thought it was OK to just come on someone's land like that. They said the pond had always been their fishing hole and nobody cared.
I informed them that I now owned the land and that I cared, and that they could go ahead and fish today, but that in the future the only time they could come is if I was there and they checked with me first. I gave them a business card with my home number and told them to have their folks call me. No one ever did........

I haven't seen them since, but I have found small campfires, 40 oz. beer bottles and a broken fishing pole there since, along with occasional tire tracks. I don't know if it's the same boys now older, or some one else so I've posted the property and blocked the drive. Anyone could just walk in but their car will be parked on the roadway or right in the middle of my land, so it will be very obvious if they do...........

 

[txdon]

The end of youthful memories??
Maybe your youthful memories not theirs.
People and insurance companies were not sue crazy in the 50's and 60's. The new youth will have to find a way to have memories without putting an undue burden and liability on property owners. Several kids have been killed in the area on 4 wheelers. In Texas you will be sued if there is an injury even though the laws protect you (kind of) and YOU WILL have to hire an attorney. Don't even consider granting permission until you have purchased enough liability insurance (minimum 1 million). Oh, by the way make sure you disclose the authorized use of off road motorized vehicles of non-family members on your insurance application. That way they can charge you more.

Or... JUST SAY NO!