Letting others ride 4 wheel bikes on my property

[Jagmandave]

I'd like to respond the the "it's the lawyer's fault " mentality expressed in this thread. First, let me say that I am not a lawyer, never have been one, am not married to one, etc.
Secondly, the lawyers are doing their job - what they are hired to do - which is file lawsuits on behalf of their clients and represent them before a judge and/or jury. The ones who need bashing here are those of us who have decided that we no longer have personal responsibility for our own actions and misdeeds, and that others should pay for us. The lawyers are simply doing what "we've" asked them to, and the judges and jurys (also "us") have agreed with them by awarding ridiculous amounts of money in compensation for our own stupidity and misdeeds.

To paraphrase "We have seen the problem, and it is us...."

 

[N80]

I could not disagree more. You do have it right about what "we" need to do in terms of personal responsibility, but "we" are a big group and those of us who know when we've done something dumb or negligent and still have the scruples to turn down the cash some lawyer waves at us are in the minority. To such an extent that "we" pretty much means the ones who are warm and breathing. I wish that "we" were a better group. But we're not and the lawyers, who are also "we", know that.

But don't make any mistake about the culpability of the legal profession. It feeds off of this type of thing and has carefully and cunningly crafted a tort culture. And its not just the ambulance chasers. Who do you think the judges are? And half of the politicians? They have created the culture and it is actively maintained. Shakespeare had it right:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II, circa 1594)

And even though they were even maligned 500 years ago, the tort culture we live in here in the US is a uniquely American invention. It exits to some degree in all western cultures, but othing like here.

 

[Jagmandave]

OK, but using your own example - it those who have hired the lawyers who are abdicating their responsability, not the lawyers. The lawyers don't just go and file a case with so and so as plaintiff without their express written agreement - IOW, someone hired them. That's the person with the problem IMHO............

I understand Shakespeare's line, and it's taken completely out of context in modern applications..........

The tort system would not be as profitable as it is without the complicity of juries - judges don't make monetary awards - so again, it's not the lawyers who are causing the problem. But I would agree that they're benefiting from it...........

 

[N80]

OK, but using your own example - it those who have hired the lawyers who are abdicating their responsability, not the lawyers. The lawyers don't just go and file a case with so and so as plaintiff without their express written agreement - IOW, someone hired them. That's the person with the problem IMHO............

I'm not denying that our culture has a problem. But to suggest that those who feed off the problem aren't part of the problem is a bit...well, pick your own word. And it is a bit simplistic to think of the problem as a simple gun for hire scenario. Maybe you don't watch TV, read the papers, see billboards or try to find anything in a phone book, but lawyers are actively pursuing cases. They go as far as to describe the necessary parameters for a suit in such a way that it it is quite clear that they assume their potential clients have no idea that they have a 'case' or are entitled to anything.

I understand Shakespeare's line, and it's taken completely out of context in modern applications..........

I disagree, I think there is very little in Shakespeare that does not transcend the simple constraints of time.

The tort system would not be as profitable as it is without the complicity of juries

This is another rather simplified understanding of the process. The vast majority of these cases are settled out of court. And it is not because any party has been proven to be at or has conceded fault. It is because the cost of defending oneself, even if inoccent is finacially unwise for some and for some it is finacially impossible. Most juried cases, particularly in the area of medical malpractice, favor the defendant.....until he sees his legal fees, of course.

- judges don't make monetary awards .

Judges are lawyers. Lawyers, in general (and much more specifically than other groups or unions) tend to share and to protect their viewpoint and their status quite actively. As a group they tend to think alike. The system they have is the system they created and that they want.

so again, it's not the lawyers who are causing the problem but I would agree that they're benefiting from it...........

I can't even imagine how any reasonable person could differentiate the two. You did say you were not a lawyer right?

 

[Jagmandave]

No, I'm not a lawyer, are you?

Again, you say my replies indicate a simplistic view - it's true, I'm not trying to deal with all the complexities of our legal system and human nature in a tractor forum.

But it's no more simplistic than the alternative you seem to be supporting - kill all the lawyers.............

Yes lawyers advertise, yes some chase ambulances, yes some are unscrupulous louts. So what? There are just as many of this type in every other field of endeavor in our country - including politics.

And I stand by my comment, the line quoted from H 6 is taken out of context in this example. They were talking about the lawyers who were keeping them from running roughshod over all of England as they wanted to do, weren't they?

Your comments reflect lawyers doing the opposite......

 

[N80]

No, I'm not a lawyer, are you?

Them's fightin' words where I come from!

Again, you say my replies indicate a simplistic view - it's true, I'm not trying to deal with all the complexities of our legal system and human nature in a tractor forum.

Well, when the complexities support the generalizations they have to be considered when the generalizations are called in question. There are certainly better places for such discussions.

But it's no more simplistic than the alternative you seem to be supporting - kill all the lawyers.............

Ooops, you got me there. And just in time too. The pogrom was almost on. (which one of the little smileys is for sarcasm?)

Yes lawyers advertise, yes some chase ambulances, yes some are unscrupulous louts. So what? There are just as many of this type in every other field of endeavor in our country

Really. Then the 'lawyer' sterotype is undeserved then? The lawyer jokes have don't have a grain of truth to them? Okay, whatever you say. Um, are you familiar with the Bar?

And I stand by my comment, the line quoted from H 6 is taken out of context in this example. They were talking about the lawyers who were keeping them from running roughshod over all of England as they wanted to do, weren't they?

Your comments reflect lawyers doing the opposite......

Now I get it, you're not reading my comments at all are you! Now it all makes sense. Seriously, as I said, Shakespeare is timeless. And yes, I realize Henry VI is dead. And yes I understand the context of the play, and yes, as is usual the quote was made in jest. But even in the context of the play, I don't think the lawyers were being established as the 'defenders of the faith.' And who are the one's running roughshod over this country? Who are the ruling class? What single job description is more common than any other in the US House and probably the Senate? Who, as a group have one of the single most powerful lobbies, hint: trial lawyers. So yes, for anyone looking for meaningful reform (i.e. running 'roughshod' over the established culture, which we both seem to agree is broken) then the lawyers would have to be considered the primary adversary.

No lawyers were injured in the production of this post. All opinions expressed herein are those of the respondants and only the respondants. Tractor By Net, also referred to as TBN shares no responsibility for the content of these posts and makes no representation regarding the mental soundness of this or any other respondant. Actual item is smaller than the image. Prices may vary and do not include tax, title, tags or other levees, leans or penalties.

 

[tallyho8]

No lawyers were injured in the production of this post. All opinions expressed herein are those of the respondants and only the respondants. Tractor By Net, also referred to as TBN shares no responsibility for the content of these posts and makes no representation regarding the mental soundness of this or any other respondant. Actual item is smaller than the image. Prices may vary and do not include tax, title, tags or other levees, leans or penalties.

 

[Jagmandave]

N 80, I respectfully disagree..............

 

[johnk]

So what about letting them ride on your property??? I can't take the pressure..........

 

[YanmarFever]

Jagmandave , I respectfully disagree..............


My opinion of lawyers will end this thread in 2 seconds if posted.


It is ovious that YOU have never been put thru the wringer in court, or walked in those shoes

I have had lawyers begging me to sue when I was shot in an accident, yet they could not understand the word (accident)


This is totally an opinion (disclaimer)