Leveling an area for an AG pool.

[MossRoad]

I've set up my AGP three times... the first initial setup, the second after moles undermined and collapsed it and the third for the moles again. So here's my advice...

First, be sure to remove ALL of the grass and roots. If you do not, they will rot and decay and compress and leave indentations in the bottom of your liner. Even if you add sand, the grass under the sand will rot and the sand will collapse. If there was a stump or tree roots under there at one time, find another place as they will rot and leave indentations under your pool liner.

Second, if at all possible, do NOT move soil from the high side to the low side and attempt to compact it. Instead, dig into the side of the hill and make a level pad on undisturbed soil working from the low side in towards the hill.

Third, put one 1" by 6" by 12" patio block under each upright post. It helps keep them level.

Fourth, have you considered a pad between the outer wall and liner? I did this the second time I put it up and it really makes the pool quieter and holds heat longer at night. It is only 1/8 inch thick, but really helps. Also lessens the chance of the liner getting torn on the sidewalls. Also, the cove molding that goes down around the interior edge makes a nice touch and looks and feels much nicer than a sand berm.

Fifth, put the pump as far away from the pool as practical or put it behind a fence or wall. While they are not that loud, it makes for a nicer insallation if you can't hear it that much.

To level out the sand bottom, put a stake in the middle with the desired sand depth. Use long pieces of conduit and lay them on the sand and level them to the center stake mark. Use two or three of them like wagon wheel spokes. Use a long level as a screed to level the sand between the spokes. Keep working your way around the center stake moving the spokes as you go. It really works well and goes pretty fast. Compact the sand and check for level again. By the way, it gets HOT working inside a metal ring. Make sure someone knows you are in there and they check on you often. It is like sitting inside a magnifying glass and heat exhaustion/stroke is a real danger.

Finally, most pool places have installation crews that can do the entire job in less than a day. They do it well and they do it often. They will get your liner nice and straight and will leave no wrinkles. After all the work and frustration, it is worth the couple hundred or less they will charge to put it in. If I ever get a new pool, I will pay to have it installed.

 

[bloody_peasant]

Wow thanks for all the tips mossroad, you have to the expert now after 3 installs, that had to stink.

I think I've got your #1 & #2 covered as part of my plans and no trees have been there for over 8 years so I should be ok there as well.

I think I'll try the patio blocks, sounds like a more stable install. I figure it can't hurt. I'll dig around 3" holes and fill in with 2" sand under them too.

The pad does sound really intriguing. Do most pool supply stores carry them?

I'm eventually going to extend my deck around one edge of the pool, but for now I'm going to just build a small platform at the base of the A frame so the kiddies and I can take our shoes off and put them back on without tracking grass in. I was planning on putting the pump under the deck once its built and maybe building a box around it.

 

[Timber]

I second the thanks on that; I am giving my aboveground pool to my neighbor because I am having an in ground put in. Your experience will be a great help. Let me ask if you don’t mind and not to hijack the thread. Do you have any tips on lining up the holes in the liner for the skimmer and the outlet nozzle? I understand that that is an issue when resetting up an aboveground. I wish I never offered the pool it would have been much easer to crush it but loose lips sink ships. Besides hi kids will love it

 

[bloody_peasant]

Ok just did a little research on the foam padding, coves, and even flooring pads. A little pricey, but would definitely add some peace of mind and save life on the liner in the long run it appears.

Oh yeah, got lightning last night so I wasn't able to try out anything with the rear blade

 

[bloody_peasant]

It appears at least one place (http://arthurspools.com) recommends not using any sand and only using a bottom pad and the foam coves.


For the most part I would ditto Scuba Bob with the following exceptions

Do not use sand. It shifts and creates divots in the bottom of your pool which makes it hard to clean. Sand also slowly wears at your liner. Instead use a pool pad and coving made of a poly foam material. It is marketed under many names. Happy Bottom, Comfy Bottom et al. This will provide with a smooth soft even bottom and the coving provides a stable uniform transition between wall and pool.

Second we always suggest completely assembling your pool with the top rails on and allowing the liner to sag into the pool. We have had several people tell us horrow stories of walls collapsing, or being blown over in the midst of liner installation

Craig
http://www.arthurspools.com

Another site (http://www.propools.com/faq.htm) also says these "happy bottom" liners can be used as a substitute for sand.

Do I have to use sand? No, not exactly. The reason you use sand in the pool bottom is because the liner manufacturers require a non-abrasive material between the liner and the ground. A product called Happy Bottom is a great substitute for Sand.

And here is one more place (http://www.strongseal.com/html/strongpad.php)

It seems to make sense what they are saying. What do you guys think about this recommendation? Do you think it would void my warranty?


Just checked my installation manual and it says
Spread 2" layer of sand or other bottom material over entire bottom of pool and tamp or compress well.
I guess "other bottom material" would count as these pads?

 

[Pooh_Bear]

I setup my AG pool once and spread about 2 inches of sand over the entire bottom.
I regretted doing this after I filled the pool and got in it.
Every place I walked left foot prints and indentions in the sand.
These all collected dirt and debris. Figured next time I would just use a tarp.

My pool instructions also said use sand as the bottom cove around the edge.
But I read on a web site that sand acts like sandpaper on the vinyl liner.
I would like to use the styrofoam cove but it is too much $$$$.

Pooh Bear

 

[MossRoad]

I was planning on putting the pump under the deck once its built and maybe building a box around it.

Remember that you have to be able to service the filter. That is, you will have to be able to get to the valve to backwash, rinse, etc... as well as be able to change the sand or filter cartridge, depending on what type of filter you get. If you put it under your deck, be sure there is enough clearance for that. Also, it is a good idea to be able to see the pressure gauge. I keep an eye on mine weekly. You need to monitor the gauge to see if your filter is getting clogged.

I am giving my aboveground pool to my neighbor because I am having an in ground put in. Your experience will be a great help. Let me ask if you don’t mind and not to hijack the thread. Do you have any tips on lining up the holes in the liner for the skimmer and the outlet nozzle? I understand that that is an issue when resetting up an aboveground. I wish I never offered the pool it would have been much easer to crush it but loose lips sink ships.

There are no tips for lining up the holes. The depth of the pool, the stretch of the liner, etc... make it pretty hard to line up again. Also, getting the old liner drained and out is pretty tough. 1/4 inch of water in the liner weighs more than anyone can lift. I would recommend draining it as far as possible, then use a squeegee and shop vac to get ALL of the water out or it will be too heavy to lift. When the moles killed my pool, the liner blew, so I had to replace it. After I replaced it, I found the pool was out of round, kind of egg shaped, and the new liner would not go in. So I had to take the liner out and reset the sidewalls.

I, too am the victim of a FREE pool. My brother-in-law talked me into taking his neighbor's pool with the stipulation that he would help me set it up and pay for half the chemicals as long as he could come over and use it any time he wanted....... once the thing was dropped off at my house, I never saw him again, nor did he contribute a penny to chemicals.

While the kids really enjoy it, and I do to, we do not use it enough. Once you start adding up all the hiden costs of owning a pool, you will be shocked.

1.5HP motor running 12 hours a day.
Chemicals.
Filters/sand.
Winter covers only last about every three years. Four, tops.
Solar covers only last a couple/three seasons before they start delaminating.

We keep the pool open four months, June - September. It costs about $400.00 a season. If we use it twice a week, I'd be surprised. 2X4weeksX4months=32 times. $400.00 a season divided by 32 uses = $12.50 each time we go swimming. If we went more often, it would be less. And it is a blast to use. Just like any other luxury, it costs money.

I used sand, and it left footprints when we started filling it. The last time I replaced the liner, I put down a pad. The moles are still running around under there, but the pad is helping to stabilize the liner and the tunnels are not as prominent.

Speaking of moles, here's a horror story for you....

The first year the moles blew out my liner, I started killing them. I killed 29 that year. The next three years, I stopped counting them after I killed 50, each year. Last year, I only killed six. This year, I have not seen any until the last three weeks, so the traps are going out again, soon. That's well over 200 moles in five years... on ONE ACRE!

That first time it blew, the moles came up and ran circles around one of those electronic mole chasers. So much so, that it tipped over. When the liner blew, all 12,500 gallons of water left the pool in less than five minutes. The water gouged a hole about 2' X 2' X 2' where the liner blew and moved patio blocks about 10' from the pool. It went around and THROUGH my garage. I had tools layed out on cardboard on the floor for a project that got ruined. So, plan an escape router for your water should such a disaster occur. Just a small swale in the yard that will direct water away from your basement windows could be a real property saver. Just something to think about.

 

[schmism]

My neighbor used 2" pink rigid insuluation on the bottom of his. provids a nice cushion for the liner.

 

[KubotaSteve]

I used solid blocks from Lowes. They were something like 2"X6"X10". Then after putting them in place where the posts go, I went around and filled in around between those blocks with other blocks. I did this because I prefer the bottom rail setting on something level and sturdy and not dirt because that contributes to rust which leads to pool failure.
As far as the sand thing roughing up the liner, the liner will wear out from some other problem before that will become a factor. My parents had an above ground pool for over 20 years and when the liners went bad, it was due to something else but never sand. The chlorine will usually eat at the liner before the sand does (well not actually eat the liner but cause it to loose it's flexibility).
As far as that styrofoam type coping and padding, it's a waste of money. I used the coping on mine and I don't like it at all because it is too steep for the auto vac to clean. Also as long as to get a tamper and tamp the sand you won't leave footprints unless you are rooting around in there before it gets tightened up a little. My cousin helped me set mine up and he used to do this for a few years and showed me all the little tricks, plus I've helped several friends put the pools up as well as my brother.
One cool trick my cousin showed me after you had your sand done and the liner in was to take the area where the skimmer goes and tape a piece of cardboard to the outside and hook up a large shop vac (16 or 20 gallon) and turn it on. It will take the wrinkles right out of the liner and make a nice fit.
A couple other words of advice are:
1. Keep the liner inside until about a half hour before you are ready for it and then bring it outside but keep in the box. Leaving the liner out in the hot sun will make it difficult to get wrinkles out as the liner will stretch very easily.
2. If you are using sand, a hand float works nice to get it smooth and then fun the tamper, or roller over it.
3. If you are having water brought in by truck. On first load or so, hold your fingers loosely around the hose to break up the large flow of water or it will make a hug divot in your pool bottom (another tip from my cousin)
4. Don't put the skimmer in until the water is close to in when filling up.
5. Once the pool is up and if you are using a deck, make sure the deck has self closing hinges and a self locking lock. It is a nice piece of mind to have.
6. As far as the pump goes, pour yourself a nice concrete pad for it to set on so it stays level. My runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week from when I open the pool to when I close it except when backflushing or cleaning baskets. It is still just as quiet as can be. I am partial to the sand filters as those cartridge filters can be pricey.

 

[5030tinkerer]

I recommend hiring/renting a skid steer. I was surprised how much I had to haul away. Mine was 20' diameter and around 18" deep on the high side.

dsb

Wow! I am AMAZED at the quality of that excavation work in your picture. That is near art quality.

How in the world did you ever get the sod out so incredibly cleanly?