Lift more weight.

[NueDemShlak]

Like to say hi, I'm new to this site! What I'm about to say might make people mad, but I'm going to say it because it would be nice. I got a '47 8N off my uncle a few months back and the motor was rebuilt like 5 years before. I switched it over to a 12 volt system with stuff I had laying around, rebuilt the pto shaft seal because it leaked like a dog, but what I hate, is the fact it can only lift enough weight with a set of forks that barely make the wheels light. To me, that tractor should lift as much as common sense and bravery would allow, there's a reason they make tractor weights. It was lucky to lift my empty tool box I brought home. I read that these things can lift enough to get the wheels light, but I think it ought to lift more than that. I don't care if I have to get stronger arms for it and somehow connect them to an auxiliary ram and bypass the pump and piston in the rear end, I got plenty of tractor weights. I know people will say bla bla bla it's a small tractor, bla bla u can't push it ect ect. Yeah but it has alot of oomph and can pull a ton of weight like nothing, but the 3 point hitch is a joke. I know I can't compare it to my neighbors tractor, it's a jd 5200, it can lift soo much weight that the rear tires will be flat. Obviously there's no need to go that far, but it's nice to know I can lift that much if ever needed. That 8n I got is way too nice to sell, but it just can't lift all the heavy stuff we got. Any ideas how to make it do what I want to do? If i could remove the cylinder and stick a ram in there, so be it, but I don't know how it's built inside. If I can somehow mount it out side, then run a pump off the front and run the fluid through the tranny, that would be just fine.

 

[bcp]

Should lift 800 pounds.

TractorData.com Ford 8N tractor information

Bruce

 

[brown40]

The drawbar used to play a larger role on tractors for one, but hydraulic capacity has been like the horsepower wars in vehicles--gone up exponentially for the same size/weight class. It sounds like you have an older gem--one no engineer planned on hanging 1500# or more off. I'd be worried if you got the capacity where you envision, something down the line would fail to successfully bear it. Sorry, but you may be better off selling it and going bigger--those are tremendously popular tractors, and the 12v modification might even be a selling point to some.

 

[Baby Grand]

What is the system pressure set at?
Does the 3pt leak down if you leave it raised?

 

[NueDemShlak]

The drawbar used to play a larger role on tractors for one, but hydraulic capacity has been like the horsepower wars in vehicles--gone up exponentially for the same size/weight class. It sounds like you have an older gem--one no engineer planned on hanging 1500# or more off. I'd be worried if you got the capacity where you envision, something down the line would fail to successfully bear it. Sorry, but you may be better off selling it and going bigger--those are tremendously popular tractors, and the 12v modification might even be a selling point to some.

Yeah it's a heck of a tractor, I couldn't see myself getting rid of it. But with that said, that thing pulls like a brute, but yet that 3 point seems soo weak to me. With the forks on (it's actually a bale fork) it wont lift a 3 row tiller. I find that hard to believe, so to lift it, I can literally grab the top link and pull it higher lol. I saw a few 8n's that could handle a backo attachment, but I can't see how if mine won't raise some of this lighter stuff. Heck my buddy has a small 4x4 jd with a loader, and I mean smaller than my 8n, but it can lift more weight, it's like wtf, how did people farm with these? Mines only good with a snow plow and bushhog. I don't know if it needs rebuilt or what. It seems fine, it takes a long time for it to drop down, and its smooth, well sometimes its "jumpy" when it gots some weight on it. What I'd love to do it attach a forklift thing on the 3 point, and put some heavy tires on it, so the tractor basically pulls it around like a trailer. That'll be a later project when I finish building my 2 vehicles.

 

[LD1]

, it's like wtf, how did people farm with these?.

It was better than a horse.

Back then 3ph stuff was still a fairly new concept. And they lifted what they needed.

If you can liftna 5' bushhog, that's about the limit. Both hydraulically and mechanically

 

[City Farmer]

You could add a hydraulic top link and use it with a 3pt pole boom. It will get a lot more than 800lbs off the ground. It also makes top link adjustments on the fly a breeze. If you really wanted to go all out and $$$$ was no object is duel hydraulic lift arms. If you end up doing it, take pictures.

 

[LD1]

A hydraulic TL on a 8n isnt gonna do as much good as you would think.

Aside from the issues of getting hydraulic power to it, out on the end of a boom pole, the leverage is gonna really act against the TL cylinder. Enough so that I would bet you would get less lift capacity out if it than out of the 3PH lift unless you went with a really large cylinder.

And even then, while you are forcing the lift with the toplink, it is still putting that weight on the lower 3PH arms and hydraulics, which is ultimately the weak link.

 

[City Farmer]

A 2" cylinder with a 1.125" rod at 1700psi has a retracting force of 3650lbs. The hardest part for him will be holding the front end down and not bending something.

 

[LD1]

A 2" cylinder with a 1.125" rod at 1700psi has a retracting force of 3650lbs. The hardest part for him will be holding the front end down and not bending something.

Correct.

But for every foot that cylinder moves, how far does the load on the end of the boom move?

The top link is typically about 16" or so above the lower pins that it will thus rotate about. So if you have a 8' boom pole, for every foot the toplink moves will move the load about 6.4'. (96/16)

So .... do the math. If you have 3650# of force at the toplink, that will only be 570# at the end of the boom.

 

[NueDemShlak]

I thought about using one (hydraulic top link) it'll be a lot nicer. I don't want to lift crazy heavy stuff, but the stuff I do lift is just a tad bit too heavy for the 3ph to pick up and the front wheels don't lift off the ground or nothing. I still like the idea oh having a forklift attached to the rear and put two wheels on it to support the weight and the tractor basically drag it around like a trailer. I read stuff about what you guys saying "you need large cylinders" or "you'll have pump issues" ect ect. I don't see an issue, no offence. Mount a pump on the front, run lines to the case, or just run a 5 gallon tank or whatever and get it all hooked up bla bla bla. Anyways, you don't need very big cylinders. We got a road tractor at work, I think it's a case, I haven't worked on it for a very long time. For every thing, I mean every thing, from the 3 ph, to the grader plow under the tractor, to the bucket up front, they're not that big. It can do all kind of damage with those little things lol. To be honest, I'm not going to do all this crap, unless I find stuff to make it. I was just wondering if there was an easy way to get more out of the tractor. I believe it has a lot more oomph to give. Anyways I enjoyed reading your comment! Just curious, is it normal for the 3ph to be jumpy when it has weight on it? Mine does that. Sometimes it's fine, other times it's worst. Just curious.

 

[Opti-Mist]

A jumpy 3-pt suggests some leakage of the lift cylinder seal.

 

[metalcaster]

If the 8N is similar to the 9N in pump and cylinder configurations I would suggest that you rebuild the internal hydraulic pump and hone and replace the rings on the cylinder. I kind of remember there being a spring on the operation valve that may have an influence on the pressure relief? All of this was contained within the rear axle housing.
As for adding a hydraulic top link there really isn't a good option to get hydraulic pressure. I've seen some run a pipe from a plug in the housing, but I don't think that there is much flow.
Tractors have come a long way since the 50's and for good reason.

 

[J_J]

NueDemShlak

Could you add two cyl to the lift arms, and use a one spool valve with float, and an engine driven pump. pump to supply your hyd?

I believe there are several tractors that have external cyl for the 3pt.

 

[farm boy00]

NueDemShlak

Could you add two cyl to the lift arms, and use a one spool valve with float, and an engine driven pump. pump to supply your hyd?

I believe there are several tractors that have external cyl for the 3pt.

Your tractors you are talking about is Allis Chalmers farmall McCormick and i think others.

I could post pics of mine but i don't know why TBN app won't let me

 

[MHarryE]

I believe the lift quoted in tractor data us at the pins so in back of the pins it will reduce quickly. I have a plow intended for an 8N and it is nicely designed to reduce weight. Also a nearly 70 year old tractor is going to be down on hydraulic power vs. brand new unless components have been replaced.

 

[NueDemShlak]

It lifts more than I thought. Now that it's drying up, we can bale now, and It'll lift 4x4 bales, I think they weigh 800ish. That was something I was worried abut, that it could't do that. But yeah someday, I'll rebuild the 3 point. Actually, the lift arms are stamped 8N, even though it's a 9N lol.

 

[LD1]

It's extremely rare to find an old N that is all original. The 9n thru 8n models ran for 13 years and shared many many parts. That plus hundreds of thousands made mean most tractors have parts from many

 

[MossRoad]

Is it an 8N or a 9N? Your first post says 8N and your last says 9N. Just curious.

 

[Apsterbobed]

Years ago I had the chance to run an old ford ??? The owner said it was from the 40's. It had a home made loader on it that was tapped into the 3pt. To run the loader there was 2 valves a stop (maybe gate) valve between your feet almost under the seat, about where the drop speed is on modern tractors. This valve needed to be closed if you were going to lift or to keep the bucket raised, opening it would lower the bucket / let fluid out of the single action lift cylinders. The other valve was a ball valve located between the seat and the fender below the seat height. Opening this valve would send fluid to the lift cylinders as long as the stop valve was closed. The bucket had only a mechanical lever to dump then lowering the arms to the ground would reset the bucket. It was a very chalenging system to work while shifting clutching and no power steering, not to mention the breaks really only would slow you down if you were driving up hill or into the manure pile.