Limitations of a sub compact?

   / Limitations of a sub compact? #21  
I think that you might want to rethink that. Most wheel barrows hold from 4-6 cubic feet. I have yet to see any SCUT that will hold 12 cubic feet let alone 18 CF. I always thought that a SCUT loader bucket was about the same size or just a little bigger than a wheel barrow, but never 2-3 times the size. :confused3: ;)

A rough comparison would be a scut bucket will handle about 3 times what a wheel barrow load would be. A bucket expander is also available for the Kubota BX.

You're right that a scut bucket is not 3 times the volume of a wheel barrow. A 48" scut bucket has a heaping volume of about 1/4 yard. A shade under 7ft^3. When I said it would handle about 3 times I was thinking about weight more than volume. Moving rocks for example. With my 165lbs working the handles of a wheel barrow, a load of more than about 200-220lbs gets to be to much if I have to go any distance, or go up hill, or go over soft ground, or multiple trips. I could do 300lbs for a short trip across flat, hard ground. So for me a reasonable wheel barrow capacity is around 200 lbs. Comparing with 600lbs in a scut bucket is where my 3 times number came from. I'm sure a much bigger, stronger person could handle 400lbs in a wheel barrow, on an incline, all day, but not me. I'd like to see the person that could work 600lbs in a wheel barrow. :confused3: :thumbsup:
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #22  
I'd like to see the person that could work 600lbs in a wheel barrow. :confused3: :thumbsup:
Come on now, I would think that any good brick mason that happens to be about 300lbs and all muscle, in his 20s, hasn't had *** for at least a few days should be able to do it. :rolleyes: ;)
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact?
  • Thread Starter
#23  
I wanted to thank all of you for the thought's about this thread. I appreciate all of your opinions. Write more if you would like!
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #24  
So what do you think? Is a scut in your future? :D
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #25  
For me the big limitation would be the small wheel diameter which prevents workiing on surfaces that are too rough, lumpy, bumpy, etc. I bought my B21 to move around trees and stumps, clean up after a dozer, install trenched counduit and generally make a nice driveway and yard inside a 4 acre hilly forested lot. My uncle has a B6200 that I have used as well. I see bigger machines go through rough areas and keep working where I have to stop and smooth out the terrian just to get to where i want to work.

Personally I would buy a used tractor of the size you need spend another $1500 on a very nice riding lawn mower.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
So what do you think? Is a scut in your future? :D

Yes but I don't know what one:licking:they all look pretty good but I am trying to figure out which model will suit me best and that seems difficult so far. I have looked at brands K,J, N,M which would be the ones in the closest proximity to me and they all look pretty good to me but I also am trying to think of the future. Another recent thought has been if I buy one of these sub compacts,a fairly standard model say with a FEL will I be able to easily find attachments like backhoes at a later date ?
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #27  
Yes but I don't know what one:licking:they all look pretty good

Them little subcompacts can do a lot more than one realizes. Just takes patience.:thumbsup:

Pictures of a Kubota B7100 HST at work attached.

Trench being dug
Area tilled and rocks drug in
Area dug out for turnaround. Rock pile from tilled area.
 

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   / Limitations of a sub compact? #28  
I don't think I seen acrerage size in post, but on my 6 acre a SCUT would be used every day with pleasure. I just sold a 5 ton @ 5000lbs full ht capacity loader & can tell ya that the only thing I miss is just having it because it was extremely well built & 3 full steps just to get in & was a beast for 60hp loader. BUT,,, could not take it anywhere near my mowing areas, which is 3 of 6acres. Machine would rut just looking at it & definately gotin the way of itself. I have over 100 40+ year old fir,pine, oak, ash, etc,..to mow around. My ground also takes alot to dry out for rutless machine work. Ruts......suck. Especially when you mow with a ZRT. No.. tractor can compete with ZRT for mowing around obsticuls & depending on your property maybe should consider SCUT & ZRT..?
I would stay with my 3000 series JD & 72" 37hp ZRT before I would upgrade to 4000 series & no ZRT. MY private road have about 10 SCUTs & CUTS on it & you would not believe what I have seen them do,.. takes time,but really unbelievable& won't get into it. They all still run & are not broken, just dinged up. I want big everything, but when reality sets in on how much I would use it .. it all goes away..fit machine to what you have. 2-10 acres a SCUT or CUT will do fine.
Joe
 

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   / Limitations of a sub compact? #29  
this picture shows an example of someone who most likely wished they had bought a larger tractor, ;)
 
Last edited:
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #30  
For many years the only tractor we had was our Satoh Beaver. At 15hp, it certainly does not rank as a large tractor. We equipped it with FEL and backhoe. It never ceases to amaze me what we've done with it both at the family home and elsewhere. For work close to the house, it works with little risk of collateral damage. It fits between tightly spaced trees.

As others have stated, it's limited by size at times - we grow some pretty big rocks here and many of them the Beaver cannot budge. When dragging trees, you have to cut them smaller. I've managed to break the frame when working fast and careless, but a couple hours in the shop rendered it good as new.

But honestly, it owes us absolutely nothing and has served us extremely well. If I were to buy a replacement for the Beaver, it would likely be another SCUT so that I might take advantage of its small size.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #31  
For me the big limitation would be the small wheel diameter which prevents workiing on surfaces that are too rough, lumpy, bumpy, etc. I bought my B21 to move around trees and stumps, clean up after a dozer, install trenched counduit and generally make a nice driveway and yard inside a 4 acre hilly forested lot. My uncle has a B6200 that I have used as well. I see bigger machines go through rough areas and keep working where I have to stop and smooth out the terrian just to get to where i want to work.

Personally I would buy a used tractor of the size you need spend another $1500 on a very nice riding lawn mower.

Amen to that. My first tractor was a 2005 Kubota B7510HST--nice little SCUT. But the narrow wheel track and small rear wheels nearly did me in when I was scopping loose fill dirt with the FEL and the right rear wheel dropped into a fairly deep wheel rut. Nearly tipped that Bota over. Fortunately, I dropped the bucket in time to keep upright.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #32  
Amen to that. My first tractor was a 2005 Kubota B7510HST--nice little SCUT. But the narrow wheel track and small rear wheels nearly did me in when I was scopping loose fill dirt with the FEL and the right rear wheel dropped into a fairly deep wheel rut. Nearly tipped that Bota over. Fortunately, I dropped the bucket in time to keep upright.

Nice tractors, the B75xx series...I sure wouldn't consider them a subCUT. The BX series, yes...but not any of the B series.
BTW...first tractor I looked at (for purchase) was a BX2200...but the B7500 was the better fit. I just ended up getting a very nice Deere 670 (there are times I wish I'd kept that fine little machine).
That opportune deal for the 670 is the only reason I wear a Deere hat rather then a Kubota hat.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #33  
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the ability of a SCUT to use "standard" Cat 1 3 point implements. My 755 is classed as a CUT, not a SCUT, and I have been able to use any Cat 1 implement that seemed practical for my size machine. My previous tractors were a Deere 112 garden tractor and a Ford 9N. The 755 has been the perfect one tractor to do everything those two older machines used to do on my 5 acres- mowing, moving snow, working in the woods, rototilling etc.

Not knocking SCUT's, but consider carefully if the slightly smaller size ( and maybe price) of the SCUT over a CUT is worth the possible flexibility limitations.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #34  
some thoughts on sub-compacts

While I can not speak for all sub compacts, I can speak for the JD 2305, and I think its atributes are similar to other SCUTs.

The 2305 is VERY powerful for its size and weight. Realistically, I do not think that one can fully use all of the power and torque available as its weight, ground clearance, and possibly hydraulic capability will give out before the engine does. From the annecdotal evidence I have heard on this site, the 2305 probably has a better power to weight ratio than nearly any other sized tractor available (I can't prove this, it is just my judgement). Also, being a small tractor (the size of a large garden tractor), it is very maneuverable--more maneuverable than a garden tractor in fact due to the power steering. Being a small diesel, it is far more powerful than a similarly sized gas tractor and just sips the fuel. I carefully measured mine and I use about 2/3 ga./hr on a typical tank. My L-120 (gas) garden tractor is FAR less powerful and uses about 1 ga./hr. I don't think you will find another utility vehicle that uses fuel so efficiently as the 2305.

The loader on the 2305 will lift anything you put into its bucket. I have filled it to overflowing with heavy clay soil, crushed 3/4 inch driveway rock, Lime dust (VERY heavy stuff), logs and even other power equipment. Granted, I am using the smallest bucket--49 inches and I sometimes wished I had a larger one. Nonetheless, the loader never once even strained under any weight I put to it. However, one MUST properly balance whatever load is placed in the bucket. For me, this typically means using my LX4 as a counter weight. Perhaps if I was working as a lead-shot factory, I might be able to exceed the lifting capacity of the loader, but anything else is fine. Note, though, that although it will lift most anything, the hydraulics are a bit slow compared to other tractors. For me, this means I must wait for 4 seconds to raise the loader instead of 2 seconds--trivial. However, there are some who whish for faster hydraulics. Personally, I am satisfied.

I have to disagree with Roy. I bought the 2305 primarily to cut tall grass with an LX-4 rough cutter. The 2305/LX4 easily tame my roughly 6 acres of tall grass though it takes a couple of ours to do--all good time. Further, I have used the LX4 to cut down heavy, woody weeds, vines, and small trees. One of its best uses is to slowly mow in reverse into a densely wooded thicket and clear it out. The 2305 & LX4 do this like they were made for the task. Actually, the hardest task for the LX4 is cutting tall green grass. This tends to bend and stick a bit where woody material simply breaks off. My LX4 has been instumental in making trails through my woods and scrubby areas on my property--it absolutely chops to shreads any plant material it can ride over.

Other tasks I use it for are clearing snow with my 5' grader blade and FEL--it makes quick work of 10 inch snow along our 500' driveway and the additional 1000' from our driveway to the main road (the county sometimes misses the road that runs right past our house and since my wife needs to get out to see patients even in bad weather, I end up plowing what the county should.)

I also own a subsoiler that I use to dig up new garden beds. I am not a big fan of tillers as I find them expensive and only till up the top 6 inches or so. The sub soiler (potato plow) will dig down nearly 18 inches and really loosen deep soil for garden beds. The soil I am talking about is not nice, black midwestern loam, but rather terribly heavy, dense, hard clay. The 2305/subsoiler did this just fine and really broke up the clay and hardpan.

On the down side there are two bigshortcommings of SUBCUTs. Firstly, being a SCUT, they have a lower ground clearance and are just more likely to hit things underneath. By far the greatest weakness, its achillies heal for certain, is the infamous tranny fan. Mine took a stick right up the middle the first time I went out bush-hogging. While I did not loose a blade, each blade did have a noticeable nick. Now, when I mow, I protect myself by placing the FEL in a position to push forward any weeds/debris that might otherwise point back and up at my tranny fan. Since I have done this, I have had no further problems with debris underneath, though I am thinking about purchasing/fabricating some type of shield for future protection--something to consider.

The second major shortcomming is again due to the 2305's (and other SCUT's) limited stature. The 3pt hitch does not always lift implements far off the ground. You may have to experiment with setting, but this can be somewhat alleviated. Last summer I got a Pat's Easy Change, and one unexpected benifit was that it pushed the contact points of the lower arms out about 2 inches. While that may not sound like much, those two inches drastically push up other implements so that they do not drag or hang low. This is a simple modification to ease what had been one of the 2305's weakest points.

Finally, the 2305 does not have a position selector for the 3pt hitch. Larger models allow one to select how far down the 3 pt arms will drop which is useful for brush cutting. On the 2305, you have to reset the height manually every time you lift the rear implement. trying to get the implement back to the same position can be tricky. While it would be nice to have a rear position selector, I find that when I am bush-hogging, I am constantly changing the height of the LX4 to adjust it for the terrain. I don't think I could just get away with setting it and leaving it.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this topic, but I hope this helps.

SI2305
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #35  
My Kubota BX2230 is great but does have limitations.

I tried moving gravel by shovel and wheelbarrow before the BX and wow was that hard. 50 shovel fulls fills my wheelbarrow. My BX FEL will hold 150+ shovel fulls and I only move my hand to do it. Much easier. With that said I did learn that (2) 20 ton truck loads of gravel takes a while with the BX. It's a big bucket compared to a shovel but a really small bucket compared to a full size FEL.

I view my BX as a great homeowner/small acerage tractor. It will pull a 4fty bush hog fine. It mows with the 60" MM deck great. The FEL saves my back. Fits by 10 acre lot great (only 5 acres are mowed - rest is trees).
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #36  
I have owned my BX2350 for a little over 2 years now. I orginally didn't get a FEL with mine, but bought it a few weeks later to level an area for a swimming pool. The FEL is a must have. I had moved an amazing amount of dirt and gravel with a pull behind wagon and a shovel before I bought my tractor. Never again! I have also used mine to move a lot of fire wood.

I own about 3 acres, of which I mow about 2, and its not very flat. In the past I had been using riding mowers, the first one a cheap one, the second one not so cheap. They just didn't get the job done. If you had a perfectly flat and smooth yard, they would have worked fine. I now have 4 wheel drive, and a roll bar, and feel much safer and its almost fun to mow. I also use mine with the FEL and rear blade to clear snow off our driveway, which is about 600 feet long.

There are few limitations. So far the lift height and capacity hasn't bothered me, but as others have said, there are times bigger would be better. The tire size can be a limatation. Some times the bigger tires of a compact tractor would be better than a subcompact on rough ground. The cost is a huge limitation in my book. You can easily get $10,000 to $20,000 in a subcompact depending on how many toys you get with it. It seems hard to justify when you can get riding lawn mowers for less than $1500.

All I can say is I have lived on our property for 13 years now, and owned my tractor for 2 years, that was a mistake, I should have bought one 13 years ago.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #37  
some thoughts on sub-compacts

While I can not speak for all sub compacts, I can speak for the JD 2305, and I think its atributes are similar to other SCUTs.

The 2305 is VERY powerful for its size and weight. Realistically, I do not think that one can fully use all of the power and torque available as its weight, ground clearance, and possibly hydraulic capability will give out before the engine does. From the annecdotal evidence I have heard on this site, the 2305 probably has a better power to weight ratio than nearly any other sized tractor available (I can't prove this, it is just my judgement). Also, being a small tractor (the size of a large garden tractor), it is very maneuverable--more maneuverable than a garden tractor in fact due to the power steering. Being a small diesel, it is far more powerful than a similarly sized gas tractor and just sips the fuel. I carefully measured mine and I use about 2/3 ga./hr on a typical tank. My L-120 (gas) garden tractor is FAR less powerful and uses about 1 ga./hr. I don't think you will find another utility vehicle that uses fuel so efficiently as the 2305.

The loader on the 2305 will lift anything you put into its bucket. I have filled it to overflowing with heavy clay soil, crushed 3/4 inch driveway rock, Lime dust (VERY heavy stuff), logs and even other power equipment. Granted, I am using the smallest bucket--49 inches and I sometimes wished I had a larger one. Nonetheless, the loader never once even strained under any weight I put to it. However, one MUST properly balance whatever load is placed in the bucket. For me, this typically means using my LX4 as a counter weight. Perhaps if I was working as a lead-shot factory, I might be able to exceed the lifting capacity of the loader, but anything else is fine. Note, though, that although it will lift most anything, the hydraulics are a bit slow compared to other tractors. For me, this means I must wait for 4 seconds to raise the loader instead of 2 seconds--trivial. However, there are some who whish for faster hydraulics. Personally, I am satisfied.

I have to disagree with Roy. I bought the 2305 primarily to cut tall grass with an LX-4 rough cutter. The 2305/LX4 easily tame my roughly 6 acres of tall grass though it takes a couple of ours to do--all good time. Further, I have used the LX4 to cut down heavy, woody weeds, vines, and small trees. One of its best uses is to slowly mow in reverse into a densely wooded thicket and clear it out. The 2305 & LX4 do this like they were made for the task. Actually, the hardest task for the LX4 is cutting tall green grass. This tends to bend and stick a bit where woody material simply breaks off. My LX4 has been instumental in making trails through my woods and scrubby areas on my property--it absolutely chops to shreads any plant material it can ride over.

Other tasks I use it for are clearing snow with my 5' grader blade and FEL--it makes quick work of 10 inch snow along our 500' driveway and the additional 1000' from our driveway to the main road (the county sometimes misses the road that runs right past our house and since my wife needs to get out to see patients even in bad weather, I end up plowing what the county should.)

I also own a subsoiler that I use to dig up new garden beds. I am not a big fan of tillers as I find them expensive and only till up the top 6 inches or so. The sub soiler (potato plow) will dig down nearly 18 inches and really loosen deep soil for garden beds. The soil I am talking about is not nice, black midwestern loam, but rather terribly heavy, dense, hard clay. The 2305/subsoiler did this just fine and really broke up the clay and hardpan.

On the down side there are two bigshortcommings of SUBCUTs. Firstly, being a SCUT, they have a lower ground clearance and are just more likely to hit things underneath. By far the greatest weakness, its achillies heal for certain, is the infamous tranny fan. Mine took a stick right up the middle the first time I went out bush-hogging. While I did not loose a blade, each blade did have a noticeable nick. Now, when I mow, I protect myself by placing the FEL in a position to push forward any weeds/debris that might otherwise point back and up at my tranny fan. Since I have done this, I have had no further problems with debris underneath, though I am thinking about purchasing/fabricating some type of shield for future protection--something to consider.

The second major shortcomming is again due to the 2305's (and other SCUT's) limited stature. The 3pt hitch does not always lift implements far off the ground. You may have to experiment with setting, but this can be somewhat alleviated. Last summer I got a Pat's Easy Change, and one unexpected benifit was that it pushed the contact points of the lower arms out about 2 inches. While that may not sound like much, those two inches drastically push up other implements so that they do not drag or hang low. This is a simple modification to ease what had been one of the 2305's weakest points.

Finally, the 2305 does not have a position selector for the 3pt hitch. Larger models allow one to select how far down the 3 pt arms will drop which is useful for brush cutting. On the 2305, you have to reset the height manually every time you lift the rear implement. trying to get the implement back to the same position can be tricky. While it would be nice to have a rear position selector, I find that when I am bush-hogging, I am constantly changing the height of the LX4 to adjust it for the terrain. I don't think I could just get away with setting it and leaving it.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion on this topic, but I hope this helps.

SI2305


Well put SI. Often times the limitations of these smaller machines are overstated and the capabilities understated in favor of a bigger is always better mentality. I use a JD 2210 for very similar taks on 20 acres and while bigger would certainly sometimes be better, I won't be getting rid of the nimble 2210 for any reason.

Joe
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #38  
:eek:I grew up with a shovel and wheelbarrow in my hands. Mixed mortar, mixed concrete, hauled tons of gravel, tons of rock, tons of dirt, tons of sand...all by hand. Mowed acres of grass walking behind a lawnwmower. Shoveled tons of snow by hand. Now, at 77yrs, I'm in great health thanks to the Lord, the shovel and the wheelbarrow. But after after one year of owning the SCUT, I truly expect to get fat and unhealthy on my three acres.:laughing:
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #39  
Guys,

Just for clarification, what it the difference between a scut and a cut.

I have a Ford 1210, only 16 hp but 4wd and low gears. It takes cat I equipment and like others I am truly amazed at what a useful tool it is. I wouldn't want to dig a 1-2 acre pond with it but compared to doing things by hand it is awesome. Compared to a riding mower it is night and day. I have a fel, BB, RB and RC and can take care of any task on our 5 acres, whether it is moving dirt, snow or gravel. All from a pretty comfortable seat. I'll even admit that it is kinda fun and I look forward to reasons to use it.
 
   / Limitations of a sub compact? #40  
Guys,

Just for clarification, what it the difference between a scut and a cut.

I'm not exactly sure myself where the line/ devides the 2 size tractors,
But I'm thinking the tractors the size of ridding mowers but with diesel engines under 20 hp, PTO.s and 3 pnt lift are considered Sub-cut and then the 21 hp thru 40?Hp I would think are the Cut tractors, am I close to being right Folks? :cool:
 

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