Llamas and alpacas

/ Llamas and alpacas #1  

RichZ

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2001
Messages
1,873
Location
White Creek, New York, Washington County, on the V
Tractor
Kubota 4630 with cab and loader
In the continuing effort to make our little farm a working farm, we are considering raising llamas and/or alpacas, to sell the wool, and young ones to other farms and for pets. Anyone in TBN have any experience with this?
Thanks,
Rich
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #2  
I have no experience, though I have had a face/face confrontation with Mother Llama while trying to take close up photo of baby Llama while I was visiting Machu Picchu.

None the less, I DO have a neighbor that evidently raises them and if you have any questions, I would be more than happy to stop by and present said questions to them on your behalf.

Richard
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #4  
Rich,
I have several neighbors that have them and they would never do it again. They are hard on fences, not good pets, if you breed them when they are not together they make this awful sound and pace the fences like no tomorrow, and they are nasty smelling and spit alot. I had it out with one neighbor who basically destroyed a fence I had put up on the property line in a little less than three years. They have no grass on their side so they tore the fence down getting to my side. The wool is not worth much at all and it's alot, and I mean alot, of work to shear them. Most of the people around here did it once or twice and that was it. The one guy I know now actually has a guy come in that he pays to do it and the guy keeps the wool. If you're looking to make money there's alot better ways to do it with animals. He can't even get a hundred bucks for the babies now and usually winds up giving them away.

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
/ Llamas and alpacas
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks for the info, Richard! You're the first person to give me a negative side of these critters, and I need to know all aspects if we're going to consider this. We're going to some llama and alpaca farms this weekend, and now I'm going to ask alot more questions!
Thanks, again!
Rich
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #6  
I don't know about out there Rich but if you decide you want them and want to drive out here there are three or four guys I know would sell you some cheap!

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #7  
My wife has 4 llamas. She broke her leg 10 weeks ago, so I guess I have them right now :). From our research and experience, they make easy and cheap pets. I don't know how to make money with them. All four required just 20 bales of hay this winter (central Ohio) and eat a bag of oat in 6 months. We have females, only, and we have never had one spit at a human.

A wild dog chased one through a wood fence that had me VERY worried (laying in the ditch, barely breathing and bleeding on the poison ivy), but the vet chuckled (5:30 AM!) and in 5 days, you couldn't tell anything had happened. They are more personable when constantly handled and there is a group that teaches some "wholistic" approach my wife likes. She still plans to take them to schools and nursing homes when she recovers. Each one has it's own distinct personality and we are very glad we have them. They are unbelievable good with physically and mentally challenged children (our own experience).

Mixing males and females, or keeping one in isolation leads to unhappy llamas. They are very social, but don't even need another llama... Someone near us has a field with one cow, two burros, one llama and another something I haven't figured out what it is (always lying in the grass and since I'm the driver, I don't get a good look... maybe it's a "tired" goat).

Monte
MonteKub.gif
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #8  
Richz,
Llamas are fun animals and you can make money off them. I would advise you to check on your market for llama wool before you make an investment. What types of wool are they looking for. You can figure about 3-5lbs of wool off each adult llama depending on how you shear them, Full cut vs barrel cut. You can make some money in breeding llamas, but local experienced competition may limit your profits. Aside from the animal you dont have a large investment in shelter. a 3 sided barn is fine. You do need someway to keep them cool in hot or humid weather. A box fan or two will do. As monte pointed out they are not big eaters nor do they make a mess in the stalls that require daily cleaining. A Communal dung pile makes cleanup a breese.


Monte, Where you at in central Ohio? I am about 20 miles north of deleware.
 
/ Llamas and alpacas
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Thanks for all the advice, guys. As usual, Richard has some sage advice. We went to several llama and alpaca farms in our area this weekend. It seems they were all run by people who were just interested in keeping neat animals. (And they are neat!) When I asked what their market for the wool was, none of them, but one, had any. And that farm had 60 llamas, and made $3000 a year off the wool. First I thought that was great, until they clarified that it was $3000 for the whole herd and not per llama./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif Oh, well, we may eventually get a pair as pets, but as a profitable venture, it doesn't seem to work, at least in upstate NY./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Thanks for all the advice!
Rich
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #11  
RichZ,
Here is a site you should do some reading about llamas before you buy, http://exoticpets.about.com/pets/exoticpets/cs/llamacare/index.htm?iam=dpile&terms=+llamas.
They are fine animals and if you just want a couple for pets then you might consider buying gelded males. They are usually cheaper than females if you are not going to breed them. The males are usually bigger and stronger than the females and they can be trained to pack or pull a cart. After saying that my wife has a female that can put her chin on my head and I am 6-2/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
If you want to save the wool then look into getting a fine wool llama but down here in Texas its gets so hot that we must shear them to reduce heat stress. So the wool is not as long as some of the heavy wool llamas up north.
LLamas come in a variety of colors and the amount of wool that will be on the animal so I would just get whatever strikes you fancy. But be warned there are breeders who breed for gentility and there are bleeders who breed for wool. I would make sure that the llamas you buy are of the friendly disposition. They are shy gentle animals and are not like a dog that likes to be petted all the time. Good luck and drop me a line if I can be of futher help.

Randy
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #12  
Hi Rich,

I've been looking at alpacas for a few months now and I'm real excited about them. I've bought four females but haven't taken possession of them yet.

I could go on and on about them -- so email me if you have any specific questions don@rainierinternet.com. Here's a brief overview of what I've learned.

Alpacas are bred on the supposition that there will be a viable market for their fleece someday. There is no such market currently, as there are only 300,000 alpacas in the US now, and they take a full 11 months to gestate. The fleece, called fiber, is extremely fine, second only to the vicuna. It's much warmer, lighter, stronger, and it's not prickly like wool. It contains no lanolin.

Alpacas are easy to raise and easy on the environment. The imports tend to be skittish, but most will eat out of your hand once they are around people enough. They don't eat much. You might have enough grass so that you don't need to buy hay. Most give them a grain supplment. You have to trim their toenails and teeth occaisionally, and shear them once a year. They yield around 7 pounds of fiber per year.

Good breeding females will cost you $9,000 to $30,000 and up. Gelded males are about $500, unproven studs are a few thousand, and top end studs can in $100,000 or more, when the sell at all. Breedings are $1,000 to $3,500 or even $5,000 for some of the top studs.

There are a lot of problems with llama pedigrees, which makes breeding dicey. The alpaca registry was done pretty well from the beginning -- most domestic alpacas are in the ARI database, and their offspring are put in their too. Don't buy an animal that has no ARI number. Incidentally this prevents theft from being much of a problem, as an unregistered alpaca is pretty much worthless.

Fiber sells for maybe $40 per pound if it's clean. This pretty much pays for feed, that's it

The mony in alpacas is breeding. Here are some tips on breeding. Animals have a phenotype, the manifestation of their own genes, and a genotype, the sum of all their genes, both expressed and unexpressed. ALWAYS buy for genotype. That means look for a female that has produced consistent offspring, and look for the same in studs. You might get a threadbare female with a good genotype -- this may well be a bargain. On the other hand, you will lose big if you buy an animal that happens to look good yet produces mediocre offspring. There is also a feature called prepotency, which is the proclivity of an animal to pass on it's own characteristics to it's babies (called crias for alpacas) relative to the other parent. It's good to find a good female who always produces crias that look like her. Similarly, if you are breeding a mediocre female, find the best, most prepotent male to stud with you can afford.

As stated above, the females are real expensive, but this is a blessing too -- their offspring are valuable too.

There are to strains of alpacas -- suri and huacaya. Suris acount for maybe 10% of all alpacas, and are more expensive. They should not be intermixed. Suris produce huacayas occaisionally. Suris have straight hair, whereas huacayas are fluffy and have "crimpy" fiber. My personal opinion is that huacayas are the better animal, for two reasons: the fiber stays cleaner, and nobody wants a huacaya thrown by a suri, so with suris you get a percentage of low-value animlas. They are also more tempermental on the whole.

Breeders look for fiber characteristics, color, and also the conformation of the animal -- straightness of back, clean bite, straight legs, etc.

Finally, they are wonderful pets!

Best of luck,
Don
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #13  
Whew, I know absolutely nothing about alpacas, but can't help but wonder whether they will go the way of the emus in this area. They were very expensive to buy and the only buyers were breeders buying from each other in the expectation that there would be a market for them in the future. That market never materialized, so the people who had emus killed them, just turned them loose, gave them away if they could find anyone who would take them, etc. The last emu farm in my neighborhood finally managed to give them all away and the owner sold the land (after only a $250,000 loss, he says).

Bird
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #14  
Bird,
Those were my thoughs exactly! Spending 9-30k on a possible market is not good business sense in my opinion. You could also add the Arabian horse fiasco to that long list of "future markets".

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #15  
Llama's took the same route as Alpaca's are now. Expensive breader to breader selling. Now they have come down to a reasonable price animal. Even winning breeding females are not that expensive. Lllama's and Alpaca's get turned into show animals, fiber generators and pets. Emu died due to a single market that didnt mature. If you want to make money in Llama's your time is up. If you want to make money in Alpaca's the hurry up, you time is almost gone. In either case get a couple of animals and enjoy them.

Gary.
 
/ Llamas and alpacas
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Bird, I feel that you and Richard are absolutely right. We heard alot of hype on how you could make money on llamas and alpacas. They are very interesting animals, and as animal lovers we were very interested. We did alot of research and visited several llama and alpaca farms here in upstate NY. Upon investigation, we found that the only market was in selling the offspring to other farms or people who wanted to get into owning them. There is no actual market for the wool, even though people who are trying to sell you the animals tell you that you can sell it for as much as $10 per ounce!! I think it's ridiculous to spend thousands of dollars on animals, when you have no chance on any return of your investment. Unless of course you have money to burn on an intersting hobby. (Which we don't!) As I said they are interesting animals, and when the hype goes down and they end up becoming very inexpensive, we could end up with a pair of each for pets. After visiting about a dozen llama and alpaca "farms", I never saw where any income was coming from.

Rich
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #17  
RichZ,
There are markets for llama/alpaca wool, but its not at $10/ounce. Its small nitch markets where you can sell it for a few dollars/lb. I know several people who can make enough off the wool to keep them in hay for a year. Not that it takes much hay. I give my wool away to the lady who shears my llamas. She like to spin and raises llamas specificly for that. Your not going to get rich no with llamas, Alpaca, maybe for a few years. Llamas need to be treated like horses, The cost money to have, The high dollar animal is few and far between. They make great pets, 4h projects and you can make money on them, Just dont try have them as your sole income stream.




Gary.
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #18  
You all may be right, alpaca fiber may never be a significant industry. You all didn't bring up anything I didn't consider though. Here is my point of view.

First, how much do you pay for other breeding livestock? For a cow easily $10,000 or even $50,000 or more. With horses the sky is the limit. As with alpacas, these females don't have a lot of value aside from their genes and reproductive capability.

Second, you should feel a good garment made from alpaca. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing that compares to it. Couple this with the fact that alpacas eat less and are hardier than sheep, and I can't imagine a market not developing for alpaca fleece (as somebody else pointed out, it is currently a niche market for hand spinners and other artisans). There are and always will be people who covet alpaca garments.

Third, it's a wonderful lifestyle. Ranching alpacas seems like as good a life as I can imagine for me and my family.

Finally, what if it does work? What if top end females continue to sell for ten or twenty thousand or more? If you get a few good females who can reproduce themselves consistently, then you make thousands off of each good female you produce. Males are usually considered bad luck, although if you get an excellent one, and have some luck developing a stud market for him, you will be in high cotton. Alpacas are excellent on small acreage, and most people haven't even heard of them, so the market seems huge. Worst case the animals have got to worth a few thousand just based on the fleece value.

I can't afford to do this as a hobby, and yes I will be disappointed if this turns out to be a bust, but I won't have any regrets about trying.

Later
Don
 
/ Llamas and alpacas
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Don, good luck, I hope you know what you're doing. Like you, I put a lot of research into this, and I have never found an alpaca or llama farm that even broke even, much less made a profit. They were all run by people who were already quite well to do and enjoyed raising gentle and interesting animals. I'd love to do that, too. But it's way too expensive a hobby for me! I hope you're not depending on this as your sole income!!/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Rich
 
/ Llamas and alpacas #20  
Don,

First, I don't know a thing about alpacas except that I like the sweater my wife got me. What would worry me about a market for the fleece is what it can be imported for. When I was in Lima, Peru you could go to the open markets and buy sweaters for $25 and slippers for $5. I don't know the export rules, but there a bunch of alpacas in that part of the world.

MarkV
 

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