Loader Breakforce

[earthly2]

How much information does knowing the Breakforce of one loader vs. another Loader tell us about the performance of the difference in loaders.?

I am lookig at the Kubota 2350 sub Tractor with a loader breakforce of only 995 lbs

The John Deere 2305 has a breakforce of 1450 lbs.

Does this mean the JD 2305 can dig deeper and push more?

 

[rbargeron]

How much information does knowing the Breakforce of one loader vs. another Loader tell us about the performance of the difference in loaders.?

I am lookig at the Kubota 2350 sub Tractor with a loader breakforce of only 995 lbs

The John Deere 2305 has a breakforce of 1450 lbs.

Does this mean the JD 2305 can dig deeper and push more?

As I understand it, the breakout force is the upforce available at the front edge of the bucket with the back edge resting on the ground. It's a measure of the leverage in the curl function of the bucket. If the two buckets are the same length front-to-back, the one with more breakout may have a greater distance from the ground up to the where the curl cylinders attach. That one thing by itself doesn't really prove one loader is stronger than the other, just that it's different. Need to look at max dump angles and lift force too.

BTW, one way to double the breakout force would be to cut the front half off the bucket. So if a manufacturer wants to have nice big breakout number to brag about, all they have to do is make the bucket shorter front-to-back

 

[samofsweden]

As I understand it, the breakout force is the upforce available at the front edge of the bucket with the back edge resting on the ground. It's a measure of the leverage in the curl function of the bucket. If the two buckets are the same length front-to-back, the one with more breakout may have a greater distance from the ground up to the where the curl cylinders attach. That one thing by itself doesn't really prove one loader is stronger than the other, just that it's different. Need to look at max dump angles and lift force too.

BTW, one way to double the breakout force would be to cut the front half off the bucket. So if a manufacturer wants to have nice big breakout number to brag about, all they have to do is make the bucket shorter front-to-back

Same with diffrent 3 point hitch lift cap.messurments. Some manufactors messure lift cap. at the axle (where the 3 point hitch is connected to the tractor) or messured a certain distans out from this axle, which of course give totally diffrent ratings /Sam

 

[Barryh]

Hello,

I'm new here on this forum. I'm buying a low hour 2004 BX 1500. It should be here in a week or so. I've been doing a lot of reading on this forum and, other sources reviews etc. Some people claim the front end loader 400 lb. lift cap is underrated and will actually lift more, others state that it is really anemic. I'm a little confused.

Wondering if anyone has real time tested theirs using some known fixed weight object and found it to lift more, while working around their house?? I'm hoping that to be the case. Thanks for any insight.

 

[rutwad]

Same with diffrent 3 point hitch lift cap.messurments. Some manufactors messure lift cap. at the axle (where the 3 point hitch is connected to the tractor) or messured a certain distans out from this axle, which of course give totally diffrent ratings /Sam

Same difference with tractor HP. 2 manufactures claim 95hp, but one is measured at the PTO and the other is engine HP.
They should all use the same standard to help eliminate further confusion when compariing.

 

[rbargeron]

Hello,

I'm new here on this forum. I'm buying a low hour 2004 BX 1500. It should be here in a week or so. I've been doing a lot of reading on this forum and, other sources reviews etc. Some people claim the front end loader 400 lb. lift cap is underrated and will actually lift more, others state that it is really anemic. I'm a little confused.

Wondering if anyone has real time tested theirs using some known fixed weight object and found it to lift more, while working around their house?? I'm hoping that to be the case. Thanks for any insight.

Kubota loader model numbers are the rated lifting load (bucket center) in Kilograms - multiply by 2.2 to get pounds. The BX1500 loader is the LA181 rated at 400 lb. The lift cylinders on the LA181 loader are quite small. My guess is that the loader frame itself would be capable of lifting much more but other factors such as the tractor's front axle, tires, overall machine balance require limiting the allowable load. Four hundred pounds is still a respectable load - like a full 55-gallon drum of fuel, or a square of premium roofing shingles - a lot more freight than you'd want in a wheelbarrow.

 

[Barryh]

Kubota loader model numbers are the rated lifting load (bucket center) in Kilograms - multiply by 2.2 to get pounds. The BX1500 loader is the LA181 rated at 400 lb. The lift cylinders on the LA181 loader are quite small. My guess is that the loader frame itself would be capable of lifting much more but other factors such as the tractor's front axle, tires, overall machine balance require limiting the allowable load. Four hundred pounds is still a respectable load - like a full 55-gallon drum of fuel, or a square of premium roofing shingles - a lot more freight than you'd want in a wheelbarrow.

The only thing I have to compare it to is my Power Trac 180 which I just sold. It would lift 600, but it was also wheel motor hydraulic drive and, would bog fairly easy when pushing into this hard packed clay we have around here.

So I'm thinking I may loose a little in lift with the BX but, gain some in drive power when scooping up a bucket full of dirt. The 180 was a V-Twin Robin 18 hp Gas powered. It was about the same weight and articulated. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Westendorf-RR]

How much information does knowing the Breakforce of one loader vs. another Loader tell us about the performance of the difference in loaders.?

I am lookig at the Kubota 2350 sub Tractor with a loader breakforce of only 995 lbs

The John Deere 2305 has a breakforce of 1450 lbs.

Does this mean the JD 2305 can dig deeper and push more?

Breakforce is a commonly listed by manufacturers because it will be the largest number/specification they can list. How often will you use your loader on the ground? When you are looking at the overall performance of a loader, you should really be looking at the lift capacity at full height at the pins, this will give you the best measurement and full "working" capacity of your loader. The JD could have a higher breakout because the bucket is more shallow or shorter which moves the point where the breakout is measured closer to the cylinder attachment point on the back of the bucket. It could also have larger bucket cylinders than the Kubota.

If digging and pushing is going to be the main task for your loader, a bucket cylinder upgrade is a good idea. Ask about the digging depth on the specific tractor you are looking at. It will vary. (i.e. it might have to sit higher on the 4WD model to clear the tires, this would have a direct result on digging depth)

 

[dfkrug]

Breakforce is a commonly listed by manufacturers because it will be the largest number/specification they can list. How often will you use your loader on the ground? When you are looking at the overall performance of a loader, you should really be looking at the lift capacity at full height at the pins, this will give you the best measurement and full "working" capacity of your loader. The JD could have a higher breakout because the bucket is more shallow or shorter which moves the point where the breakout is measured closer to the cylinder attachment point on the back of the bucket.

Well-put.

I don't think breakout force for FELs (OR b/hs) should be used to fairly
compare models. Different bkts can be used on the same loader, and
you can trade off higher BO force for smaller bkt capacity. Also note that
a FEL loader's max lift rating may be the most important spec, but a lot
of the lift capacity may be used up by excessively massive bkts, esp
those with heavy QA mechanisms.

 

[rutwad]

Specifications, advertisements, and statistics are all displayed in a way that works best for whoever is using them. Two different manufactures both offer 95 HP tractors, but further reading will show that one is engine Hp and the other is PTO HP. Dodge advertises the biggest diesel motor available in 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. That is true, but I do not see it as any advantage for Dodge. It does not have the most torque or HP, but it is the biggest.
Flying is the safest way to travel. NOT REALLY. That is based on the accident per mile statistic. Peter and Paul decided to race their cars. Peter won the race. Paul told all his friends that he came in second, and Peter ended the race next to last.

Specs are hard to compare1

 

[dfkrug]

Specs are hard to compare1

Yup.

The engineer quotes "specifications"; the marketer quotes "features".
We know who writes the brochures. Deciphering the brochures
requires a lot of Q&A. Sometimes even talking directly to the manufacturer
leaves one guessing, too.

 

[samofsweden]

So what is the lift capacity of a BX24/2350 FEL rated in kilogram or lbs. with the standard bucket which comes orginal on a BX24/2350? Or do some one has a story from real life...about lifting capacity? Sometimes it feels like numbers on a paper is a big diffrens from reallity.
----------------
Sam

 

[rutwad]

I usually do major researching myself before making a purchase. Of course the salesmen always have the right answers, but you can take what they say with a grain of salt. 2 things I have noticed from doing major research when purchasing

• 
  the salesmen will be able to easily tell that you have done your research from intelligent or specific questions

• 
  I have also found that salesmen do not always know their products.

The internet is the best tool you have.

 

[rutwad]

How much information does knowing the Breakforce of one loader vs. another Loader tell us about the performance of the difference in loaders.?

I am lookig at the Kubota 2350 sub Tractor with a loader breakforce of only 995 lbs

The John Deere 2305 has a breakforce of 1450 lbs.

Does this mean the JD 2305 can dig deeper and push more?

I found different specs. The JD breakout force is 1147 lbs. vs Kubota 992 lbs.
That gives the JD a overall advantage of 155 lbs.


Comparison JD Kubota Advantage
==================================================
Lift Cap. 489 518 Kubota- 29 lbs.
breakout force 1147 992 JD- 155 lbs.
lift height 73.4" 71.3" JD- 2.1"
dump clearance 55.5" 52.4" JD- 3.1"
dump angle 38 deg. 45 deg. Kubota- 7 deg.
rollback angle 32 deg. 29 deg. JD- 3 deg.
RAISE TIME 5.5 SEC. 3.5 SEC. KUBOTA- 2 SEC.
LOWER TIME 3.4 SEC 2.7 SEC KUBOTA- .7 SEC
DUMP TIME 5.6 SEC 1.7 SEC KUBOTA- 3.9 SEC
ROLLBACK TIME 3.4 SEC 2.4 SEC KUBOTA- 1 SEC

So they seem pretty comparible, except the Kubota excells in cycle times.

 

[Westendorf-RR]

The JD advantage of 155 lbs. is only accurate if the buckets and measurement point is exactly the same between the two loaders. Just a few inches difference in the depth of the bucket can affect this number.

Also, regarding the cycle times... Does the JD loader have larger cylinders? Could be why the cycle time is slower. Time may be slower, but you'd have more power. The smaller the cylinders the faster the oil can cycle through them.

 

[dfkrug]

I found different specs. The JD breakout force is 1147 lbs. vs Kubota 992 lbs. That gives the JD a overall advantage of 155 lbs.

I have found that, of the tractors I have owned, the Kubotas use
hyd system pressure relief settings of only about 2000psi or so, and the
JDs and Kiotis were at about 2500psi. These are specs that were in
the service manuals, verified by pressure guage. I read somewhere that
the BX24 is only 1800psi or so, if I recall correctly. These are
critically important specs that should be easy to find....but they are not.

Also, a JD loader I had actually used flow restrictors on the curl cyls. I
have not seen that on Kubota FELs. I wonder how common that is.

 

[rutwad]

The JD advantage of 155 lbs. is only accurate if the buckets and measurement point is exactly the same between the two loaders. Just a few inches difference in the depth of the bucket can affect this number.

Also, regarding the cycle times... Does the JD loader have larger cylinders? Could be why the cycle time is slower. Time may be slower, but you'd have more power. The smaller the cylinders the faster the oil can cycle through them.

Your right, and the John Deere is measured so that it should show the advantage..... , but I would say that .0149606" (or less than .4 mm)should not make that much difference .

 

[rutwad]

I remember a few years back I was helping a man using a small JD tractor and FEL to pull up fence posts. The lift capacity would not pull up one post so he curled the bucket. Unfortunately the tractor was not level, the chain not centered, or something because the lift cylinders could not stand the pressure. One broke and the other bent.

I also remember the cylinder rods were black, not chromed. Is the chrome finish just to prevent rust and give it a smooth finish, or could the black rods be something completely different.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I remember a few years back I was helping a man using a small JD tractor and FEL to pull up fence posts. The lift capacity would not pull up one post so he curled the bucket. Unfortunately the tractor was not level, the chain not centered, or something because the lift cylinders could not stand the pressure. One broke and the other bent.

I also remember the cylinder rods were black, not chromed. Is the chrome finish just to prevent rust and give it a smooth finish, or could the black rods be something completely different.

Cyl pressures will be the same even if the load is not centered. The cyls are fed from the same pressure line in //. The loader frame twists when the load is off center and comes into an equilibrium with the equal cyl forces. I guess he just had marginal cylinders.
larry