loader problems

[art wannamaker]

hi i have a m6060 kubota with a la 1154 loader on it when i tried to put the loader all the way down to lift up the frount of tractor it does not lift it not sure why on any other tractor i had i could lift the front end off the ground any help thanks art

 

[dstig1]

Are you in float mode by some chance? Under most normal conditions, yes it should lift it...

 

[Dave M7040]

hi i have a m6060 kubota with a la 1154 loader on it when i tried to put the loader all the way down to lift up the frount of tractor it does not lift it not sure why on any other tractor i had i could lift the front end off the ground any help thanks art

Push your joystick slowly forward and near the end of its travel you will feel it slide into another position called Float.
The purpose of Float position is to allow you to backup with the bucket down to fine grade material. In the float position the loader arms and bucket are able to move up and down with only the weight of the arms and bucket being experienced by the material being graded. In this way the down pressure is not increasing and decreasing as the tractor itself goes over small bumps and valleys.

People who are not used to newer loaders, often with joystick controls, which have a Float position, experience the same as you have.

The red arrow on this illustration shows the Float position.

Try this experiment. Put the bucket flat on the ground. Push the FEL towards forward just to be certain there is some limited down pressure but not by pushing the joystick fully forward.
Now tilt the bucket forward. The loader arms should be fixed in position with hydraulic fluid locked in its cylinders and the tilting forward of the bucket will raise the front wheels.

If that works, again put the bucket flat on the ground and then push the joystick all the way forward and leave it there. You can even take your hand off it and it will stay there.
Now tilt the bucket and instead of lifting the front wheels the loader arms will move up a bit because the hydraulic fluid is not locked in the cylinders but can return to the reservoir/trasmission.

Have you had a loader with the ability to tilt the bucket so far back that it becomes like a trough?

If you have not then pay attention to this caution which presented to you in hard to understand graphic labels on the loader frame.

It you begin to do bulldozing or pushing with the front edge of the bucket tilted way forward, you risk breaking the two arms shown in green in this photo.

Dave M7040

 

[JWR]

Good info above. And it might have been "being in float and not knowing it" as suggested. I'll add a couple of comments. Most/all loaders have some travel specs about how high and how low they will operate. Usually the "low" number is negative like 4 or 5 inches. You might by accident or quirk have been in a situation where the ground under the bucket was enough lower than then the plane of the tractor tire surfaces that the bucket would not go any lower. That's easily checked by the tests 7040 describes above or just find a spot where the ground is higher in front of you and see if it lifts the tractor OK then.

You are probably using a loader that has skid-steer compatible plates on the front ? Most new Kubotas and many older large ones are that way. Some skid-steer buckets "mount high" on those adapters and take away much or even all of the ability of the loader to run flat below zero (below the plane of the tires surfaces.) Probably the easiest test is to point your bucket tip down and try to lift the tractor. If that doesn't work you are either in float or there is something wrong.

Another comment regarding loader control valves: I am one of those irritated by the complexity of many newer loader valves with features like quick gravity dump for the bucket, float where you don't don't want float, multiple detents, etc. Picture Dave M7040's diagram above having MORE arrows in it (!) My MF DL250 loader is/was that way. A nuisance. I much prefer a very simple loader valve that just does exactly what you tell it to do , no more, no less. The ones on the smaller less expensive tractors are actually better in my opinion because of simplicity and doing as they are told every time. The more complex loader valves are not only much more expensive, they are less repeatable, and you tend to try things 2 or 3 times before getting the blasted thing to do what it was told.
I have no experience with a 6060 and don't know what sort of loader valve is standard on it.

 

[civilian]

hi i have a m6060 kubota with a la 1154 loader on it when i tried to put the loader all the way down to lift up the frount of tractor it does not lift it not sure why on any other tractor i had i could lift the front end off the ground any help thanks art

Just an observation with my BX2230 loader. If engine is at idle speed, loader may not move when moving the joystick. Speed the engine up, and it moves. Dad's JD1070 loader will move at idle speed. (I also didn't realize my BX2230 FEL had a float position. Until after reading enough posts about float on FEL, I pushed real hard through the gate on the valve and low and behold I did have float.) Jon

 

[oldironsights]

Art, make sure when lifting the front axle with your loader that your brakes are not applied.
Since the rear axle is the pivot point, it needs to pivot freely.

 

[JWR]

I mildly disagree oldironsights -- if the brakes really were locked solid somehow and you lift the front of the tractor, that is at most 10 or 15 degrees. That will just rotate the rear tires aft a few inches and the whole tractor backs up those few inches. No harm at all. But most of the small Kubotas, certainly my BX2200, have utterly useless brakes and you'll never be able to tell it anyway !

 

[4570Man]

If my tractor is parked on a slight downgrade with the bucket level it doesn't have enough travel to lift the front end. Try curling the bucket down or putting the bucket on a stump or something. My tractor will lift the front end with the brakes locked.

 

[oldironsights]

JWR, I did not give advice based on theory.
I gave advice based on personal experience with my own (New) 2501DT.
My brakes work. They work so well as to prevent tractor movement on a hill & my loader cannot overcome the brakes when trying to lift the front axle off the ground.
I CAN lift the front axle a good 12 to 13 inches with the rear brakes disengaged.
I had to relieve the friction at the pivot point (rear axle).
Perhaps with time & wear, the loader will be able to overpower the rear brakes.

 

[Egon]

How's the joy stick linkages for wear and adjustments?

 

[ovrszd]

For "simple" people like me, here's how I know if I'm in float. If when you let go of the joystick it does not return to center position, it's detented in float. If you let go of the joystick when it's simply in the lower position it springs back to center.

No drawings needed.

 

[Dave M7040]

Better yet, what is the hydraulic pressure going to your FEL!
Buy a $30 gauge and tell us the pressure readings.

This one was put together at an independent hydraulic shop.

Many posters on this and the orange tractor forum, have been encouraged to check their relief valve pressure. They took a pressure measurement by disconnecting a hydraulic line going to the loader cylinders and plugging in the gauge. They then were pleasantly surprised that the performance of the FEL on their nearly new tractor was sub standard. A simple adjustment and the FEL performed as designed.

If I knew your psi number I would understand the power of your brakes. Don't check the pressure on a rear remote but the FEL quick connects.

Dave M70401

 

[Dave M7040]

Are you in float mode by some chance? Under most normal conditions, yes it should lift it...

-Dave

"Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

Thanks for that comment. You made me laugh!.
Sometimes we all take things far too seriously when giving or receiving an opinion on our tractors.

Dave M7040

 

[JWR]

JWR, I did not give advice based on theory.
I gave advice based on personal experience with my own (New) 2501DT.
My brakes work. They work so well as to prevent tractor movement on a hill & my loader cannot overcome the brakes when trying to lift the front axle off the ground.
I CAN lift the front axle a good 12 to 13 inches with the rear brakes disengaged.
I had to relieve the friction at the pivot point (rear axle).
Perhaps with time & wear, the loader will be able to overpower the rear brakes.

Ironsights that makes two of us. I spoke from experience as well. Art's M6060 is well over 5000 lbs, closer 6000 as equipped. Your 2501 weighs around 2500lb plus attachments. Mine weighs a paltry 1600 lbs., under 2000lb soaking wet. For sure my brakes are lousy to no good and always have been. There is very little comparable among these 3 drastically different machines. The brand is about it. Mechanically, the FEL lifting the tractor does not need to overcome the brakes at all. Lock them solidly in place. The only thing that will happen when you lift the tractor with the front end loader with rear brakes locked is that the rear tires will rotate a very few degrees to the rear. That scrapes the bucket those same few inches along the ground toward the rear. Not a big deal at all. If yours refused to do that it, is extremely likely that your bucket dug in enough, under the weight of the front of the tractor, to stop the scooting toward the rear. Could very well be, with the end result exactly as you said. What happens depends on the surface the bucket is on, the weight of the tractor and the relative strength of the FEL hydraulics -- assuming the brakes are locked solid. Will be interesting to hear what Art finds in his case with the 6060.

 

[JWR]

hi i have a m6060 kubota with a la 1154 loader on it when i tried to put the loader all the way down to lift up the frount of tractor it does not lift it not sure why on any other tractor i had i could lift the front end off the ground any help thanks art

We are dying to hear what you found after hearing all of us chatter. One last question: Did the engine seem to be loading down when you tried to lift the front end ? If it did (or not) not that sheds much light on your circumstance.

 

[Egon]

Put a couple of blocks under the bucket and then see if it lifts the front of the tractor.

 

[JWR]

Put a couple of blocks under the bucket and then see if it lifts the front of the tractor.

Agree. Man we sure could use a "Like" button in these forums.

 

[civilian]

Agree. Man we sure could use a "Like" button in these forums.

and a "Thanks" button. Jon

 

[dstig1]

-Dave

"Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

Thanks for that comment. You made me laugh!.
Sometimes we all take things far too seriously when giving or receiving an opinion on our tractors.

Dave M7040

Thanks :dance1: One of my favorites. I told that to a co-worker one time and it took him 10 min to regain his composure. Caught him just at the right time, right after Murphy struck...

Now if only the OP would make a return visit to let us know what he found...

 

[Dave M7040]

No reply after many suggestions.... almost wants me to suggest to the forum to have a way to let people know of this poster next time they come for help.
We all need the feedback from the person with the problem to know which suggestion was the more relevant and useful. We all learn this way!

Dave M7040