Looking at buying a Chinese tractor

[jkis]

Out of curiosity, are the Chinese engines held to the same emissions standards the larger name brands are held to? I don't know if I have seen that addressed. With everyone saying they are so simple, I wonder how that comes into play. One of the reasons I stay with older tractors is simply so that I can work on them.

tom, whats your version of, "works loaded up on hundreds of acres day in and day out" for a 25hp tractor ?
cheers stuart

 

[CliffordK]

I will say that the reason I don't hang out at tractor dealerships that much is that everything seems overpriced.
I certainly wouldn't expect any of the larger US companies and US/International companies to significantly beat the Chinese companies for the price on parts.

Sorry, some of these are baler parts....
I bought an older Freeman wire baler that I wanted to try a wire to twine conversion. Thinking that if I bought new knotters, it would be like buying a new baler. $5206.38 for new knotters, needles, etc. Yep, almost like getting a new baler!!!

The broken axle I had on the baler, the manufacture no longer made (seems to be a common theme).

I went to the IH dealer today. $50 each for little 1" bearings for my IH baler, which the baler took 4, but they only had 2 in the entire state (none at the local dealer, I guess I should have called in advance), but one of the reason I went to the dealership was that the parts diagrams weren't clear with what was actually included. Apparently most of the gears and other major parts for the baler are no longer available.

I asked for prices on a couple of 3" gears for my International 884 tractor. $650 EACH, for just the gears, which they apparently had NONE in their nationwide dealer network. And that didn't include shafts, bearings, bushings, and etc. No doubt buying the replacement parts I needed for the tractor (4x4 transfer case gears) would cost well in excess of $2,000.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that Chinese parts are any more expensive than major US brands unless on had a good part by part price/longevity comparison.

There are a lot of tractors in the USA between 30 and 50 years old. Do you expect parts availability for your target tractor once it reaches 30+?

 

[Bob Rooks]

Out of curiosity, are the Chinese engines held to the same emissions standards the larger name brands are held to? I don't know if I have seen that addressed. With everyone saying they are so simple, I wonder how that comes into play. One of the reasons I stay with older tractors is simply so that I can work on them.

Yes, they are, otherwise they can't be imported legally. However, they aren't the same standards as automobiles. Here is a primer:

Emission Standards Reference Guide | US EPA

 

[Rich Waugh]

Yep, the Tier IV Emissions standards apply t the Chinese engines same as domestic. That's one reason a couple of manufacturers stopped importing to the US - they didn't want to re-tool to meet Tier IV.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I will say that the reason I don't hang out at tractor dealerships that much is that everything seems overpriced.
I certainly wouldn't expect any of the larger US companies and US/International companies to significantly beat the Chinese companies for the price on parts.

Sorry, some of these are baler parts....
I bought an older Freeman wire baler that I wanted to try a wire to twine conversion. Thinking that if I bought new knotters, it would be like buying a new baler. $5206.38 for new knotters, needles, etc. Yep, almost like getting a new baler!!!

The broken axle I had on the baler, the manufacture no longer made (seems to be a common theme).

I went to the IH dealer today. $50 each for little 1" bearings for my IH baler, which the baler took 4, but they only had 2 in the entire state (none at the local dealer, I guess I should have called in advance), but one of the reason I went to the dealership was that the parts diagrams weren't clear with what was actually included. Apparently most of the gears and other major parts for the baler are no longer available.

I asked for prices on a couple of 3" gears for my International 884 tractor. $650 EACH, for just the gears, which they apparently had NONE in their nationwide dealer network. And that didn't include shafts, bearings, bushings, and etc. No doubt buying the replacement parts I needed for the tractor (4x4 transfer case gears) would cost well in excess of $2,000.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that Chinese parts are any more expensive than major US brands unless on had a good part by part price/longevity comparison.

There are a lot of tractors in the USA between 30 and 50 years old. Do you expect parts availability for your target tractor once it reaches 30+?

To add to this: I have a Woods (USA made) rotary mower that I bought in 2007. In 2009 I ran over a rock and broke the stump jumper. According to Woods that part was no longer made and they have no replacement. It was two years old! (Fortunately I was able to get something that worked, although not the exact part, off Ebay). I also have a Chinese made flail mower. Last spring I ran over a stump and broke one of the bearings. The bearing they use is a generic one, I was able to order a replacement from Amazon Prime, which was on my doorstep in under 48 hours for a cost of $14.72, including shipping.

The parts availability objection is just a non-starter. I've never had any problems getting parts for my Jinma. There are a bunch of suppliers, I order parts online and they arrive within a few days. When new brands are introduced you run the risk of getting orphaned, and there are lots of brands that have had that problem. Around here, Belarus was popular for a while, and they are absolutely worthless now because you just can't get certain parts. But the Chinese manufacturers have a different business model. There are no "authorized dealers," just importers who buy direct from the factory.

It's impossible to say what the future holds 30 years down the road, but millions of these tractors are in service in China, and the factories are going to keep churning out parts for them. The biggest risk is that the Chinese manufacturers go to an authorized dealer model, which would limit the availability of parts and drive up the prices and we'd see levels of service more like the American manufacturers.

 

[SPIKER]

I want to say something on this as well.

Me, I bought and joint imported a 40' container of tractors and sold 3 keeping one tractor setup. I had 2 of my 4 tractors SOLD with a "group-joint venture." All of us had a small amount of $ & we planed for prior going this direction back late fall in 2001. Back then JINMA was one of the largest tractor manufactures in the world by # of tractors built. SO PARTS in 30 years I would have to say SHOULD still be good due to the # of tractors they were manufacturing for global consumption. Like mentioned above about every Bearing that I've fixed or replaced on mine has been a generic bearing I can buy from 100 different places. I've had a couple "bigger breakages" as I use my JINMA 284 as a Bulldozer for first 300+ hours of it's life. I still have it and runs every time when I need it. Heck it is still running the CHINA BATTERY even it is 2002 so perhaps people just are happier to talk about how poor their perception is rather than how good reality can be.

This little machine is working on my 22 acres, and I also mow/plow drives for neighbors. It cleared and tilled 10 or so of my acres from brush multi-floral rose and old Barbed Wire fence rows. The first day I got it to the farm I dropped the fell and started pushing thru/into Multi-Floral Rose that were 40' deep and 20 feet high. There is a creek running thru that patch and pushed and prodded that stuff into a pile that I managed to knock down well enough to burn within a few days work. I wish had kept some of the main root balls, they were 6~8" across and 1~2' high. I've moved probably 300+ yards of dirt and 200+ yards of gravel anywhere from 50 to 1500 feet. Taking the gravel out of the wash and moved it into pad area & built drives with it. Some one or two FEL loads at a time and I built a 3 yard Dump Trailer to make transport easier. I took out 12" of top soil and built water diversion berms around my barn, back filled the barn with the wash out gravel. Roto-tilled and planted thousands of feet worth of tree rows and gardens for myself & neighbors. I've brush hogged between the tree rows and trails for myself and for neighbors. It is up to 600 hours now is all and of that 600 probably 400 was hard use/ground engagement tasks and the rest mowing/brush hogging. I've broken a few parts such as twisting off 2 drive axles by leaving it in 4x4 and bulldozing piles of dirt/gravel while overfilling the bucket. This is a no-no but I did it anyhow and suffered the broken parts. I broke s steering plate & just re-welded it. I tore off/broke 2 Hyd Cylinders on the Back Hoe (JW03) beating on/yanking out BIG rocks. I simply made replacement ends and welded them on. The Ends Breaking is common failure on the backhoes if you have one of them. I pryed out 3'x2'x4' concrete piers using the FEL (should have hooked up the back hoe but was too much of a hurry) & tweeked the FEL some. Does it all matter in long run maybe if I intended to re-sell it but I don't I intend to keep it going until one of the both of us are too old to care much anymore lol.

As far as Eng Condition, it started up when it was -38Degrees by installing a dual 500 watt Halogen Shop Light and shinning it onto the Fuel Pump. Running the Glow Plugs for 30 Seconds and Holding the Decompression release. I've had to replace my glow plugs once they were back then maybe 30 bucks for a set. It does not smoke & runs hot sometimes as it still has the battery in front of the radiator. I usually HATE working when it is 90 anyhow so the running hot is no big deal for me. I know I am not the typical owner as if something breaks I patch it up with proper parts or make something that will replace the original.

Mark

 

[Diamondpilot]

Parts-Parts-Parts

How often will you need them, how hard will they be to get, and how much will they cost. Those are the key questions you should be asking yourself. I've owned several John Deere's, a couple of Kubota's, and an off-brand. The off-brand was an OK tractor but when I bought parts (and everyone will need to at some point), they were absurdly expensive….$50 for a metal pin, $80 for a plastic cap, ….it was ridiculous. This was in Texas, check out the parts issue before you decide.

This has been the oposite for me. I have a Ford and my Uncle has a JD. I bought a Jinma and my starter was under $200 to my door in 24 hours. His was north of $800 and took a week to get.

Comparing my Jinma and Ford the Jinma parts are slightly cheaper but easier and faster to get.

Chris

 

[Ross71]

tom, whats your version of, "works loaded up on hundreds of acres day in and day out" for a 25hp tractor ?
cheers stuart

I have a DF254, owned it 4 years with no mechanical failures. I subcontract on a 300 acre farm. Last month when we were silage making I started at 5am, with a claas twin 16' twin rotor rake and worked on until 11pm. My boss was on the clamp with his Claas arion 610. Another contractor was in with a Claas 620 on the forage wagon. Guess which of these tractors didn't have a breakdown.

Just the same last winter, the only working tractor on the farm was mine.

Yes it is a simple, tractor. There's less to go wrong, I suppose. It would be great if it had a shuttle gearbox, and the depth control needs a very fine touch, but we are constantly amazed at what it will do. Just as we are constantly disappointed at what the German won't do

 

[jkis]

opps moment

 

[jkis]

I have a DF254, owned it 4 years with no mechanical failures. I subcontract on a 300 acre farm. Last month when we were silage making I started at 5am, with a claas twin 16' twin rotor rake and worked on until 11pm. My boss was on the clamp with his Claas arion 610. Another contractor was in with a Claas 620 on the forage wagon. Guess which of these tractors didn't have a breakdown.

Just the same last winter, the only working tractor on the farm was mine.

Yes it is a simple, tractor. There's less to go wrong, I suppose. It would be great if it had a shuttle gearbox, and the depth control needs a very fine touch, but we are constantly amazed at what it will do. Just as we are constantly disappointed at what the German won't do

hi ross, is that a wheel rake, to turn over the grass, just wondering what gear you pull it in and the revs, is your tacho still going, a mod i did to my lever was to put a spring each side to bring it back to center, probably because thats how i was used to hydraulic levers, there is also a turn dial just under the front of the seat to slow the hydraulics down for the 3 point linkage, i just set mine so the slasher doesn't just drop, another thing i did was to put flyscreen over the radiator screen, and to seal the radiator of with some pool noodles, another question, do you find you use the 4x4 much
cheers stuart