Comparison Looking at buying new tractor, LS vs Kubota

[DwightD123]

Messick.. I hear some of these same "quality" issue concerns with the other brands... Position of handles, Hood opening (by the way just pull the lever on the fender and it opens to a much better servicable position), ergonomics (although this is not really a difference in component quality). I will give you the gas tank one..although it's easier for me to lift than to bend over after a hard day's work.
I wonder if some of the brackets and top links you are referring to change on the R vs G Series? Not sure The Loader Joystick is extremely convenient. It is right at the distance and placement I would put it if I designed it. The cables were protected with the same mesh wrap I see on others...unless I am misunderstanding which cables you are referring.
When I put all this together I can see a difference and maybe I would even give you some on the things you mention that I kind of like....All that being said it does not equate even close to the difference in cost which supports my theory that they are taking a lower profit margin in order to put themselve into the marketplace. If they are then I win...If they are building a Yugo in Sheeps clothing then I lose.
Tell you what...in the interest of everyone's time...let's just say we are both right and go get some work done.
I have a very powerful Shuttle Shift 41 HP Tractor that is asking me to play.

 

[houstonscott]

Wow, really thought you had some hot quality issues. I rate you answer a big zero, not one of the issues are quality related. Just as I though. I've got to tell you I am a real car nut and understand the difference between poor design, quirky design, and poor quality. Not hearing any quality issues. I drive German cars, a diesel BMW, I know quality when I see it, the steel frame on the LS seemed to me to a full .25in or more in diameter than the Kubota. All the metal parts were heavy cadmium plated, and were a new flush design where Kubota was old stuff. The whole tractor seemed to be made from thicker sheet steel. All the welds seemed to be much higher quality computer welds, I would guess because the LS is assembled at a new factory with modern robotic assembly not decades old factories that have not be modernized. I don't know who makes all the gears and hydraulic pumps but the steel castings looked very high quality and thicker on the LS. The model I bought out weighs similar Kubota's but I would expect that, their made from a much heaver frame. I think your going to find that in the long run LS is going to do just fine, you sound like a Sony guy 10 years ago when Samsung hit the market. You will not be able to put down quality its real and right out front for everyone to see. Besides you comparing to a newholland, not a real LS, I'm sure there must be differences.

HS

 

[Dargo]

Please read the post. I am not expecting the return on investment if sold to be equal right now. I am expecting it to be there or greater in the next 5 years. This is based on my theory that LS is buying it's way into the market place the same as Mahindra in the past and not a reduction of quality parts. I could be wrong...I could be right. Time will tell but I really do require substantive proof of claims of inferiority of build.
To just say they are built with less quality without some substance to back it up...well.. I just can't go for that and would not ask you to either.
I was the first in line to go buy a John Deere when I got the permission from the wife to go forward. Then I found out they aren't Made in the US anymore...my heart dropped. Then I started trying to find a tractor that was made in the US...surely FORD...Ughh..nope. That is when I decided to start doing some research. That is when I bought the R series LS.
Again..I will say "to each his own"..but don't knock mine without proof.

Where is the OP? Let's GET HIM!!

I've always missed on buying from a company selling cheap to sort of buy some market share. Several years ago I was all set to buy a Mahindra from a really nice fella in KY that I'd purchased some implements from but Mahindra pulled his franchise because he was like one or 2 miles too close to their next dealer. That soured the deal for me, but I was going to give Mahindra a try when they weren't very well known. I assure you I can't buy the same size with the same equipment Mahindra for that price anymore. Oh well, sometimes you just miss one.

Still, my net cost with JD tractors has to be pretty close to zero. That's why I don't think it would be possible to come out that way with LS; and that's not saying anything negative about the tractor, just the pricing and resale. You'll likely have a much smaller audience looking for a used LS tractor and those people will probably be looking for a steal. BTW, pretty well most all of my JD tractor was made in the US. The 5525 shows it was made in Augusta, GA under country of manufacture. Entry level models based on older technology aren't, but that doesn't mean they are bad machines.

 

[Jhiphop72]

I'm in the market for a new compact tractor and am leaning heavily toward LS models from the G and R series, here's why:

There isnt a tractor under 50HP made (designed, engineered, and assembled) in the US by any manufaturer. That said, they may be assmebled here as LS are; but to me its an equal playing field for all since they all play in someone else's field. Resale means absolutely didley squat to me. Consider I have been using a Super M with all original parts with the exception of tires, rims, brakes, mufffler, plugs, and its second set of points. Now when I say its original I dont mean original parts used from other tractors to make it run. I'm talking my Dad drove it off the delivery truck in 1954 and has been its chief mechanic ever since. The only thing we have modified is we have added a Cat 2 hitch capable of lifting about 6K pounds. (even the 6v generator still works) The other tractor I list is a Mitsu MT180D with over 5K hours now being used by my Bro-in-Law. My father also bought it new in the 80's after first looking at Kubota when they were first entering the market. The price between the 2 were virtually identical. As far as dealer support, in my lifetime I have never used a dealers garage/ repair service for a tractor/auto unless it was a warranty/ recall issue or for parts that cant be had used or via a junkyard. So dealer support for me is essentially a non issue. moral of my history book here is: Being able to maintain your equip and knowing what your equip is capable of and using it wisely wil make almost any major mechanical purchase a success.

Here's what I'm looking for:
A FEL that will take some abuse (I'm done cleaning up the barn with a wheelbarrow and pitchfork)
dual remotes (for a hoe down the road)
foldable ROPS
decent amount of HP at the PTO

Most importantly PRICE (value for my money)

Now lets compare 2 models Kubota L3800 and the LSG3038 (non Hydro cause I cant stand it and gears are so much easier to replace if I break em)
they are virtually identical on the spec sheets except for a few things I noticed. the LS has 122.2 cu inch displacement vs 111.4 for Kubota. not a lot but that may explain why the lS engine produces .5 HP more at the engine with a lower RPM (read less fuel) 2700RPM for 37.4HP on Kub vs 2600RPM for38HP on LS. one area Kub specs out ahead is the 3point 1998 lbs. vs 1808 lbs. for LS. ( but this is a non issue for me neither of these tractors will be using a CAT II implement and if I need to lift more than 2K pounds at once I'll use the super M) the pimary 3pt attachment im getting with my purchase will either be a 5ft or 6ft tiller both of which are within the lifting capacity. the driving force behing a good loader is the mechanical advatage and the hydraulics that make it lift. I noticed that the LS has a 1 gpm advantage on Kubota 7.4gpm vs 6.3gpm that tells me the LS has less strain on the engine to lift virtually the same amounts. the only measurement I found with identical comparisons was directly at the pivot pin The breakout force 2628 for LS vs 2462 for Kub. the raising, lowering and bucket dumping times are quicker on the LS by fractions (probably that extra gpm). One more thing about loader differences; the Kubota loader itself is an option as is the quick attach skid steer type. On all LS models that is included because they use American made Spirit loaders.

Bottom Line to all this to me these tractors are virtually identical in what they can perform in a real world application for what I'm going to be using it for. However, the LS hurts my wallet by a lot less. Now I've seen a few LS users post what they paid for their machines but no Kubota owners post what they have paid. I will say I have been quoted a price under 15k for a G3033 last week and I know Kubota, JD, CC, (Yanmar) and Kioti cant touch that. And as i stated earlier PRICE is the trump card that closes the deal.
reputation doesnt make a deal anymore in todays economy and hasn't the last 15 yrs or so. Reputation for a company just doesnt hold water like it did 50 yrs ago so there is no reason for me to pay more because of it... yes you can say: "you get what you pay for", but I would say: paying more doesn't buy anything of extra value"

end of book/rant

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Wow, really thought you had some hot quality issues. I rate you answer a big zero, not one of the issues are quality related.

I'd say the HST dogging the engine in high range on a flat parking lot is a bit of an issue. I'm glad you guys like your tractors, and I don't think anyone wants to take that away from you. Your all treading into fanboy territory here and leaving anything objective behind. LS themselves commands 1-2% of the market, the other 98% can't be totally wrong. I'm not saying they are junk, just not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

For what its worth, the massive price advantage thats often quoted looks a bit different at dealer net. In my case, its 500-800 when comparing as apples to apple as possible. I'd suspect that most of the pricing difference thats found is a difference in dealer markup, more than it is a massive difference in the price of the tractor. Yes, I am comparing the LS/New Holland models, but I do have LS dealer price sheets and the differences are minimal when you look at a complete package. (we did some checking to determine how much to stock)

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I will say I have been quoted a price under 15k for a G3033 last week and I know Kubota, JD, CC, (Yanmar) and Kioti cant touch that.

I'd happily sell you an L3200DT with loader and quick coupler for that. Assuming your looking at gear, as your thread implied.

 

[xtn]

LS themselves commands 1-2% of the market, the other 98% can't be totally wrong.

A large percentage of them can be. Look how many of them voted for Obama.

 

[DwightD123]

A large percentage of them can be. Look how many of them voted for Obama.

:laughing::laughing::laughing:
Now there's some truth.

Messick..I really feel bothered that you said we were treading into fanboy territory. The reasons the majority of us listed for liking these tractors were fair and substantiated. The reasons others are giving for downgrading have been mostly unsubstantiated feelings without the ability to make serious backup of their downgrading.
Personally I would not buy from a dealer who did not see the same value in my purchase that I did. If you thought it was inferior your prejudice would surely come out the first time I had to bring it in for a service issue. I can hear it now "Well these tractors just aren't made as good as Kubota's, you are gonna have to expect that".
I trust that won't upset you but perhaps give you some insight as to how those of us who have done our homework and see the product as a quality product at one heck of a price might feel about a dealer that is talking about this product as inferior and then offering to sell it to us. Just a consideration...
Also I am sure that 1-2% is growing based on the number that were going out of my dealer the day mine was delivered. Let's all check back in on 07/2016 and see how the tractors are doing and check the market share. Time will be the only true dictator of truth.

 

[xtn]

Ergonomically I couldn't stand the brake pedals on the same side as the HST pedals. But that's just me.

xtn

 

[DwightD123]

Well it's midnight and I just got off the seat. It made me realize...theres so much work to be done I don't have time to argue the age old Ford vs Chev vs Import. I got work to do fellers. I'm gonna bow out of this thread and try to learn some usefull stuff. Hope everyone gets some good projects done this weekend and enjoys some seat time.